Digital Paint Discussion Board
Development => Mapping => Map Graveyard => Topic started by: IronFist on May 02, 2005, 05:01:28 PM
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That looks like a crowded map. I suggest you make it bigger, and go around some curves.
Like this.
____________
| | |
| | | |
| | | |
|____|______|
Beautiful.
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That's ALOT of r_speeds for such a small area...not good man :(
Have a read:
http://www.logictechnologies.com/keith/tutorial/brushx.html
especially check out the link at the end.
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DirtyTaco is like the most active NAMBLA member, ever. Even more than fornal.
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The map looks nifty.
Coming from one direction the r_speeds are not that bad, but turn around and they are very high as you cross the bridge.
Although the map is pretty I think it's a little chaotic. What apears to be a good ammount of space to move around in is drastically reduced by impassable obstacles (boxes and what not). I'm thinking the flag is almost immpossible to siege with any descent team guarding it.
I noclipped around and inspected the structure closely. I found alot of areas that are assisting in your r_speeds being amplified dramatically. Some of these areas are artistic and deserve a bit of lieniency, but some really should be fixed.
Lemme post some sshots (well how about 10 :)):
While you wait for these 10 sshots to load lemme say that I find your post title insulting ("DANGER: HIGH-POLY MAP FOR THE LEET"). Are you saying that because some people strive to keep r_speeds down, or prefer to play maps that have been built with r_speeds in mind, that they are deLEET (or void of LEETness)?
You'll have to forgive me. I have been bombarded with average map designs lately that are built using very poor mapping techniques. What bothers me about this map is that it is very nice looking, but still, again, there are those little technical issues that, if fixed, could make this map uberleet.
I know I ramble on for not, and will probably face a slew of nasty posts for this post, but I would just like to see mappers strive for total perfection. Maybe I have no room to talk, but you can bet your ass that I try my darnedest (is that a word?) to make whatever crappy design i've come up with as structurely perfect as I can.
Ok...at least a few of the screenshots should be loaded by now.
Have a look at some of the issues I found in this map. These areas, and there are many more, assist in elevating the r_speeds of this map. Again, some are artistic in nature, and could be left alone, but others should be fixed. The question is: Is the mapper willing to go that extra mile?
Jitspoe would be a good person to critique this map. He is always brutally honest with my maps (as much as I hate it).
later:
S8N
(http://www.logictechnologies.com/keith/stuff/sshot004.jpg)
(http://www.logictechnologies.com/keith/stuff/sshot005.jpg)
(http://www.logictechnologies.com/keith/stuff/sshot006.jpg)
(http://www.logictechnologies.com/keith/stuff/sshot007.jpg)
(http://www.logictechnologies.com/keith/stuff/sshot008.jpg)
(http://www.logictechnologies.com/keith/stuff/sshot009.jpg)
(http://www.logictechnologies.com/keith/stuff/sshot010.jpg)
(http://www.logictechnologies.com/keith/stuff/sshot011.jpg)
(http://www.logictechnologies.com/keith/stuff/sshot012.jpg)
(http://www.logictechnologies.com/keith/stuff/sshot013.jpg)
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Ouch. No offense but as has previously been pointed out, the brushwork is a mess.
Some other things:
- The train is so slow, by the time you wait for it and ride to the base, the timelimit is up.
- Even with the train and the bridge, there's really only one path in -- it's all the same open area. That may work for 1v1 or 2v2, but once you get more people in there to put up a solid wall of spray, it's going to suck.
- Instead of having hoards of the same weapon piled up in one area, save the polygons/bandwidth and just spawn people with weapons.
- Instead of using lava for things like the electric fence, use trigger_hurt. Keep in mind that the nodraw flag does not work in vanilla Quake2 (which sadly some people still use). Also, the caustics still appear, and that just looks weird.
- Instead of modelling things like the lightning bolt out of brushes, create a texture. And in the event that you need to do brushwork like that, actually embed the brushes into the face so you won't have all those edge polygons adding to your wpoly count.
- Keep a consistent theme. Just because there's 200+ textures doesn't mean you have to use them all. :) The different rock and grass textures all together don't look right. Use one rock texture and one grass texture.
- Don't use textures for things they shouldn't be used on... the barrel texture for water just looks... very wrong.
- Blue can't capture the flag. Do you have a teamnumber set on the base?
- There are lots of spots you can get cornered in. For example, to the right of the garage, you can jump over the boxes, but once you're back there, you can't get back out. Also, if you jump out of the base near the flag while defending, you can't get back into the base without killing yourself.
As for detail brushes. Don't used them unless you have to. If your map is taking a long time to vis, then it's probably due to the design and it should be reworked. And those screenshots you posted are both exactly the same. To display the triangle outlines, use: deathmatch 0; map yourmap; gl_showtris 1. You might also have to set gl_ext_multitexture 0 and vid_restart, but I think I fixed it so you didn't have to do that anymore.
Edit: Oh, and one more thing. Those custom textures you're using. Can they be freely released under the GPL? Also, the fence texture: you should make one side of it nodraw so you're not getting double. I'm also trying to figure out a way to get lightmaps on transparent surfaces. Might want to wait until I get that figured out before releasing. Glow-in-the-dark fences look weird. :)
Edit2:
- Use clip brushes! You have lots of things sticking out 1 or 2 units that you can get "stuck" on, especially on the fences. Clip that stuff! :)
- This is kind of a small one, but the light in the garage is slightly misaligned... looks like the brush is too small, actually. I always wonder how people end up with stuff like that. Just use a 32unit grid, make the light, and you're golden. Most you'll have to do is rotate 90 degrees. Also, the jail bars texture for the side of the light is rather odd.
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Hmm, not too sure about the grass on the top of the walls. Also, I'd go with more dusk-like lighting as was in the first screenshots. Just out of curiosity, what is the building with the custom texture supposed to be made out of? Doesn't look like anything I've ever seen. :) I might also suggest the use of a different grass texture -- one that doesn't look so lush and healthy -- kind of looks funny with the desert-like canyon rocks. Also, grass doesn't grow too well underwater. ;)
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Looks cool, but what's with the blue glow?
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Dude great job on the map looks like fun and I hope to play it when i can get back to playing again, this is really pissing me off not being able to play all these tight wicked maps..
Great Job
-Termin8oR
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Be sure to use a beta extension. :)
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Well, crap. I completely redid the cliff structure and it's still taking forever to vis. It was on 3... this morning. Though I did cut out over 1000 numportals with the new cliffs, and these should actually do something to block the vis...
http://dpball.com/files/maps/incomplete/twilight_b1_jitspoe1i.map if you want to take a look. I guess I'll have to redo the arches over the tram, too... not sure what you added that killed vis so bad.
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http://dpball.com/files/maps/incomplete/twilight_b1.map_
Had to rename it because the server was trying to do something special with .map files. DT: see my reply in the other twilight thread. (Why are there two anyway?)
Edit: I just merged them to keep things sane.
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It's going to be hard to get good r_speeds with that tram, since the thing needs a clear path all the way across the level...
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Tram already moves :) I put a second one in, too, so the wait isn't so long.
I think this is my latest save: http://dpball.com/files/maps/incomplete/twilight_b1_jitspoe1k.map
I'm almost wondering if we sholud do something kinda crazy like put a big vis blocker wall in the middle and have the tram go to the wall, drop down underground, then resume... lol, once you put reflective water in this thing, even my 9700pro has difficulty and drops to unplayable framerates, and I'm pretty sure most players have worse hardware than that.
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Only goes through once? I'll have to look at it -- thought it kept cycling. It did at one point -- maybe I broke it. :)
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screen shot?
Frye asked me to check it out
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I really think we should change the name back to Lockdown. It sounded cooler and fit the map a lot better. Besides, we already have Twilight Encounter, which kind of makes things confusing.
Anyway, I see what I did with the tram. I was trying to fix some other freaky thing. I changed it back, but the freaky, flickering tram is still present. I can't figure out what's going wrong. There's 2 trams. One goes through just fine, and the second one gets to the tunnel then looks like it shoots back across the track really fast, even though it doesn't physically do that. If you actually ride on it, you'll notice it goes to the end of the tunnel and drops down as it should.
I at least got it working again and fixed a few misaligned textures, areas you can get stuck, etc. I'm compiling it with a fastvis now. It still needs a lot of tweaking, but I figured I'd at least get the ball rolling again.
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Woah, thread revival. I had completely forgot about this map.
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