Digital Paint Discussion Board
Development => Bugs, Feature Requests, and Feedback => Topic started by: S8NSSON on May 09, 2005, 09:18:50 AM
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DISCLAIMER***********
This post may piss some people off. Specifically some people that I communicate with everyday. To you guys/girls I can only say that you must understand that I am a developer, as a developer I always look to change (hopefully to improve, but...). I know the following statements will directly disagree with some of your philosophies, but if we all agreed this would be a utopia.
END DISCLAIMER*******
I wish, when we change over to the new model format and redo all the models and skins, that pb2 is upgraded to beta or alpha2 or something, and support for all previous versions of the game is eliminated.
I know there are some people that like the Quake2 version, or like version that date back or whatever, but I think the time has come to move on.
For one thing this could eliminate all current cheats. It may start a new line of cheats, but all the old Quake2 cheats would be gone. Wouldn't this be nice? I wonder how many players would quit or become really lame players if these wallhacks and cheats were eliminated? I relish the day that these players are shrunk to the low-life scum that they are.
But some people claim to like the "feel" of the older versions. I say, "too bad." Software goess through evolutionary changes. Get used to it or go play something else. We happen to be dealing with very old, yet very modified, technology here.
And, not meaning to piss anyone off with this one, but Jitspoe spends HIS valuable time to continually evolve his game. That's right, HIS game. He has been on the developement team since the beginning. He was the modeler, skinner, texturer, and every other artistic thing you see in the game. He has developed himself into an accomplished programmer, and has taken on the task of continuing PB2. It's pretty much HIS game. Does he do this for himself? Maybe so. Does he do it cause he gets a certain ammount of fame and recognition from it? Maybe so. But the fact is HE DOES IT. And he listens to the community (if your suggestions or comments are resonable). I don't care how much money ANY of you spend on this game, you don't come close to being close to the monetary value Jitspoe could place on his work. If he was a contract programmer @ $100/hr, or an employed programmer @ $40/hr (both of which are not outrageous wages), and you calculated the hours he's put into this game, you could see that NONE of you put anything near what he puts in to this game.
And just because you've been playing this game since Day-1 does not mean that Jitspoe OWES you anything.
Jitspoe,
I plead to you to plan a strategy to eliminate support for all previous versions of PB2 and move us on into a new age with the coming of the new game updates.
Those that cheat will leave or suck, those that truely love this game, and appreciate your work, will stay and learn the new machine.
Will that make the game perfect? No. But a new beginning is sometimes good to shake the vermin out of the trees.
LET'S ELIMINATE THE CHEATERS (at least some of them, for a while at least).
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I'm with Keith and Pierce on this one.
Get rid of past version support. Cut it's head off. Eliminate that part of the past.
Chris
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Yeah...
I'm sick of people that use Quake2.
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Im sick of people getting sick. :)
I do perfer q2 version, but if that means no more cheating....kill it. Great mod ill miss it!!
***edit
S8n ..."can o' worms"
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Why do you prefer the quake2 version?
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I wish for 300 ball hoppers, auto-spawn cockers on a map with no obstructions, low-gravity, grapple hook, jetpacks and scanners (WoD mod) to start with.
Jitspoe I am just hard headed about what i like sorry bro, nothing personal. Alpha14 and all your work is superior.
I like using q2 because of reasons said in past.
1. Game Spy access.
I know its a weak excuse but it offers so much more (for right now (winks)) than the Alpha.
2. Paintball flight and death animation.
Again i don't know who did the original animations for q2 deaths but its is alto more obvious in q2 when someone dies. I dint need to explain the importance of this. This also ties in to paintball flight, often I find my self doubting the balls flight. Again I remind yall, the amount of hours spent playing this game. It just throws me off ever so slightly, my apology for being supercritical.
3. I can't connect to all servers running DigitalPaintball using Alpha.
Ironfirst, I missed understood you, did you just condone cheating? :)
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Just point gamespy to paintball2.exe instead of quake2.exe and it'll work for the standalone (same for ASE and any other server browser I've tried). The ball flight is done on the server side. It doesn't matter what client you're using. Death animations should be resolved with the new player model. Come build 15 you shouldn't have anything to complain about. :)
Back to the original subject: Contrary to popular belief, I'm not trying to force my Nazi reign of alpha terror down everyones throats as I've often been accused of. I've actually spent a lot of time trying to ensure backwards compatibility with each new version. I want to make the game better, but while it's still heavy in development, I don't intend to force people to use stuff that's still "in-progress."
Though with the soon coming releases, it may not be possible, regardless of how hard I try, to maintain compatibility. For one, if we start using new weapons and multiple player models, Quake2 users are going to be stuck with a bunch of white diamonds and missing sounds/textures. For two, a complete network protocol rewrite might be in order to allow for better, rate-controlled entity updates, compression, better prediction, and the like.
My primary concern is getting the servers to all update. Graffiti still hasn't updated from 1.7x, which is over a year old. It's still 100% compatible with Quake2 and there's no logical reason not to upgrade, but it still sits there... what will happen when a new server update comes out that will not work with any of the old clients? If the server admins refuse to update, it's rather pointless...
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Just point gamespy to paintball2.exe instead of quake2.exe"
What about my other q2 MODS!!!!! I have very little knowledge on what your asking me to do. Sorry :-[
[quoteI'm not trying to force my Nazi reign of alpha terror down everyones throats as I've often been accused of.] is equal to It's still 100% compatible with Quake2 and there's no logical reason not to upgrade, but it still sits there...
Untill you have changed models, guns ....etc ..Other than a reign of NAZI alpha terror I dont see an excuse . It was on 13 why not 14?
Thanks for your attention to this matter. Btw more than half this community plays on graf, just thought to be reminding ye :)
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Quake2 mods will be a problem, so I would suggest getting another program, say ASE (http://www.udpsoft.com/) or HLSW (http://www.hlsw.net/), and you could use one for paintball and another for quake2.
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All my friends that play pb and q2 mods and aao use game spy.
thanks for the stalemate
Those of us honest players do not deserve this. We dont cheat, we dont lie and we respect everyones opinion.
Yes I take this personally. sorry bro :)
Life is a booger no?
have a great work week
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Don't deserve what? Being forced to use better graphics? :)
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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Very funny. ;)
No i dont mind playing alpha , i have shown this . LOL u silly programmer/savant u
Sorry, let me rephrase..
I feel cheated out of my online dp experince not your fault directly. As logic goes, if (not if ) you put so much work into makeing this game backwards compatable why regress on the server list. We both know that Snipen refuses to update ok so what?
Alot of honest, good people play there, now we cant use alpha there?
OK back to topic.
This is getting old. My point as in other thread is still one of ignorance sorry. :)
I wish for my old q2 crosshair back.
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Then copy pball/pics/ch#.pcx from the quake2 directory to the paintball2 directory. :) (# being the crosshair number you use).
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Figured that at out thanks.
Must I?
Thanks Grand Dragon. <<<< (j/k) :)
My next wish is for a custom interface in options, so I dont have to use the console, in regards to anyhting that can be binded. This is a huge draw back to honest but ignorant players.
I also wish find the bind to the scope feature.
Alot of newbies wish for a faq/tutorial on jumping. Perhaps even a demo ;)
Lastly I am careful for what I wish for. It can be done with out harm to the future release.
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I don't know why you want a scope feature, but just make one an alias.
www.planetquake.com/console
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Jit,
here's what you need to do.
Make the next server and client code incompatible with the current versions out there. It will divide the dp community a bit but they'll get over it. CS has done it SEVERAL times with no backlash.
The new client and server side packages might include a phone home feature for new updates.
I post this not to piss off those that continue to use q2, but for those that are stifling the software advancement of the mod.
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CS also has thousands of servers so they can pull something like that off. If there's a split in the community, people will still have hundreds of servers to choose from, whatever side they pick. We only have a small handful, most of which take forever to update, so if a new version came out, people who downloaded it wouldn't be able to play anywhere because the servers wouldn't be updated, and server admins wouldn't update because most clients wouldn't have the new version, and nobody would play on their server.
Of course, it could work the other way around and everybody would update, but if history is any kind of indication, that would not be the case.
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I have to agree with Jitspoe on that topic. Imagine how many players are still using CS 1.5 :)
And also, we already have a problem with the backwards compatibility to Quake2:
As my Clan is renting a server on a gameserver provider, we have to use Quake2 and paintball as a mod. If I'm right, this is not possible with version14 (server version 1.81) anymore. That means we cannot upgrade our server, thus wont show up on the new serverlist, which gives trouble to some people. Although most people I know use ASE or HLSW (and with Gamespy Arcade its also possible), some "oldschoolers) might find it harder to access our server, as well as the Graffitiy Servers. If you want to go away from Quake2, this means we will most likely stay on version13 as we are now, although I've been talking to those folks to make it possible for us to have the new client running on their servers, no response yet.
On the other hand I know hacks have become a more severe problem in the past months. Just this week I saw another speedhacker, and left the server, cuz its just no fun to play with these folks, it destroys the whole game. Deleting these hacks off the game will therefore an important step for this game, however it will be done.
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Well there you have it.
Maintain backwards compatability and please the hackers, or chop off the head of the chicken and please the good honest players that have been a part of this community since the dawn of creation when the paint was fresh and the painters were plenty in a land of battlefield & koth where spray was a deotorant and the men were judged my the ability to slaughter thy foe in a war that went on for decades throughout the kingdom in an appocoliptic jesture of remorse and faith strung tightly by dignity in the face of thine enemy hath thou cometh down upon our land and bringeth forthth yourith haxithth.
Father into your hands, I commend my spirit. Why have you forsaken me. WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN....MEEEEEEE
Argh all that LSD in my younger years is catching up with me....the pretty colors...ooooooooooooo00000000
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Paintball2 still has compatibility with the Q2 game dll, so the paintball2 dll should work fine with Quake2. If it's a Linux server, I'll have to compile it with an old version of gcc, though, because of byte alignment or some such garbage (this is why I hate developing on Linux). Unfortunately Quake2 has some security holes and potential stability problems, so it would certainly be preferable to use the standalone paintball2 executable, but if you can't, you can't. For now that will be OK, but in the future, things like compressed network protocols, enhanced physics, fast file downloads, etc. will make using the standalone on the server much more preferable.
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I wished untill q2 is not compatable to allow all servers on the list alas ... s8n I am a good honest player i dont wish to loose q2 but if it means no more cheating then kill it, but untill then WTF is the harm of allowing old builds on the server list during the automated proccess? :)
I would really consider making 15 server list automated and backwards compatable to q2, untill you get rid of it If I were you, but then again I also dropped 10 hits of acid a day in sumemr of 90 on a dare. NO WEED that summer :( Dryest tiem of my life
According to Lan it sounds like they are getting the a raw deal because of cheaters, with that said "FEEL MY FREAKING PAIN!!!!
Like I said its a fun mod no matter the version, I am here to kill not stare and the enchanced graphics. Its a shame a handful of cheaters can control the devolpers actions not vise versa.
Global accounts would help fight the spam.
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Why would you be able to use Q2 and not DP?
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Paintball2 still has compatibility with the Q2 game dll, so the paintball2 dll should work fine with Quake2. If it's a Linux server, I'll have to compile it with an old version of gcc, though, because of byte alignment or some such garbage (this is why I hate developing on Linux). Unfortunately Quake2 has some security holes and potential stability problems, so it would certainly be preferable to use the standalone paintball2 executable, but if you can't, you can't. For now that will be OK, but in the future, things like compressed network protocols, enhanced physics, fast file downloads, etc. will make using the standalone on the server much more preferable.
Yes, master =) i know, and I'm still trying to get a server with the standalone version of Alpha14. As I tried to update to build14 on the server I'm running now, it wouldnt start anymore, so I "downgraded" back to version 13, and yes, its on a linux server. But you shouldnt worry about that, I'm just saying that removing backwards compatibility WILL in the end result in a split of the community, which doesnt necessarily have to be a bad thing, if it removes the cheaters, but will once more cut the population on the servers. And as most players nowadays play on Graffiti Servers again (as the Apex are down),most likely the larger amount will stay with the older versions.
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Free, web-based mail accounts could always be blocked, along with IP's.
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its better than whats happening now.,
Loging in as some one else.. sounds familier?
It would stop that.
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Better or not, for some reason it's difficult to migrate the community to new servers. Remember when the er33t servers were up? Everybody played there. There were other servers -- even graffiti -- around at the time, but hardly anybody acknowledged them. When news of er33t servers going down spread, some people freaked out, thinking it was going to be the end of paintball. No joke. I had all kinds of people messaging me with things like "omg, dp is gonna die!" er33t went down, and people moved on to graffiti. Now that's where everybody plays. I guess because everybody else plays there. Even when there were better servers up and continuous complaints of admin abuse, people still chose to play there.
That being said, I am still looking to see if I can get a reasonably priced server.
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Lol Taco. I get you point.
I am compelled (of course) to mention what you left out.
You have mentioned before you think I don't cheat. Thank you. What about honest players Sharon, Aura, Derrek, Sandman, WCH, S8N, Wicked, one eye willy ect ect ect... and then there are others that are not honest, prone to cheating or logging in as someone else etc...
We all enjoy playing on Graf servers, we don't cheat, we don't talk down to others, we help newbies or at least refer them to here. We don't stand for cheating and will even warn them before kicking.
I don't speak for those mentioned although I do wish they would speak up for I am the worst articulate of us all.
I heard mention of splitting, OK but don't split the wrong part. Regardless of the your intentions don't forget us honest players just because of a handful of cheaters. Anything else means they win (cheaters) and I am trying not to let that happen, wish I had help. :-[
Best hosting service you can get, pricy mabey..
http://www.thunderdome.us/forum/index.php?
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Im saying untill there is a spilt makes stuff backwards compatable, anyhting else is a slap in the face of the honest players.
Even when there were better servers up and continuous complaints of admin abuse, people still chose to play there.
To my knowledge (which is naught) most those complained about admin abuse were caught cheating, useing someone known name, or being abusesive towards others. To say there was bad admining sure if you pissed them off as described above then yes, but for the most part I have been on worse servrs aka e3rrt and heard no compaints (forgive taco for saying this) for those very same people that complain about admin abuse on graf.
Another way to look at jits is how mant honest hard working people did not complain.
Thank you.
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To my knowledge (which is naught) most those complained about admin abuse were caught cheating, useing someone known name, or being abusesive towards others. To say there was bad admining sure if you pissed them off as described above then yes,....
Hi,
My name is KnacK and I am a victom of admin abuse by Snipen for being a good player, having the capability to cap, and shoot players on the opposing team.
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Hi,
My name is Loial I was a victom of GT admin abuse in the past (was temp ban for binding keys in a busy server), view gibbed more time than I can count on e3rrt.
Nice to meet ya... :)
how mant honest hard working people did not complain?
Like I said above unless your were misbehaving you have a .01111% chance of getting kicked. I can attest to this for I have logged as many hours on that server as anyone 4avg players combined. As for being harressed for being a good player, welcome to my world on snipens server. Live with it, I know you can, if you act at the very least humble / thankful for his service. You would be fine.
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Uh... way to spell er33t.
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Wish er33t was in spell check. I told you to stop spell cheking me!!!
*minuses you now 2 posts.
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I agree with s8n, if graffitti is not willing to update than you shouldnt be willing to put there ip's on the server list. From what I understand you control what servers people see? Why not take graffiti servers off the list until they can keep up with the update? Im sure Fourth wouldnt mind putting the newer update on apex at all, it would only make his servers get used more.
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The problem is Graffiti is currentl *not* on the server list... but people keep their old servers list and have binded a key to connecting, such as my sister has. Sadly, it seems Graffiti is "the thing." Hopefully someone else will rise to unseat them! (Please, Apex, come back!)
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I wish I could learn to do what pink is doing so I can start usign alpha more.
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loial21 in console just do:
alias server_1 connect <ip here>
then when you want to go to that server just type in the console "server_1"
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Got it ,ikinda. Thanks Tom.
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i have a problem with the host of raptor salsgiver.com w on quake2 ,he makes up his own rules and if he dont like you he bans you from the game,and being the host,i guess he can,however its one thing to ban someone,but when he also messes up yor settings where it effects you on other severs ,i think someone should do something to stop that type of behavior