Digital Paint Discussion Board

Development => Bugs, Feature Requests, and Feedback => Topic started by: jitspoe on November 10, 2004, 02:41:11 PM

Title: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: jitspoe on November 10, 2004, 02:41:11 PM
The major new thing here is the improved serverlist.  I've also tried to do some things to work around bugs in the ATi drivers.

Let me know if anything doesn't work right!
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: Trevor (Zormy007) on November 11, 2004, 06:32:52 AM
Hey, nice build but I was wondering... when I load mine up and join a game, there is a grey box next to my ammo with a white border and covers where my "skin color" icon head used to be.  When I pick up gun addons such as the steel barrel and stuff it shows up over the box.  Only problem is I can not see what color my skin is.  Is this normal?  I first upgraded, but then tried to install build13 from scratch and the problem still exists.  Any help?
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: Eiii on November 11, 2004, 06:58:08 AM
Nice icon, jits. The "splatters" are a bit too small, though.
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: Eiii on November 11, 2004, 06:59:28 AM
oop. Just realized that i stll don't get servers.
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: Trevor (Zormy007) on November 11, 2004, 07:22:22 AM
Also, I can no longer hit F1 and get the active player list.  It appears then disappears instead of staying alive on screen.  I get a split second peak! :P
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: jitspoe on November 11, 2004, 09:44:25 AM
Trevor: Thanks for the feedback.  I probably have a pic misnamed or something.

Hold F1 down. :)
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: Trevor (Zormy007) on November 11, 2004, 10:58:41 AM
Thank you for help with that one... what about the video bug (if its even a bug).  Do you want a screen shot of it if possible?  Is anyone else experiencing the grey box???
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: Excalibur on November 11, 2004, 03:32:52 PM
hey this is about build 12 and 13. did you make it so in build 12 stuff you pick up fades away cause mine still does the way it has allways been. also i updated to build 13 but when i start up paintball it still says build 12 in the corner.
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: jitspoe on November 11, 2004, 08:57:31 PM
Probably because you're playing on servers that haven't updated.  All the cool stuff requires a server-side update.

Are you sure you extracted build13 to the right location?  It overwrites the paintball2 folder, so you have to extract it to the folder containing the paintball2 folder.
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: Excalibur on November 12, 2004, 11:32:31 PM
i extracted it to c:\paintball thats where i installed paintball
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: Jesus Walks aka ST!FFI on November 13, 2004, 06:13:24 PM
when i press refresh or update the game crashes.
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: jitspoe on November 14, 2004, 07:21:23 PM
Yeah, that one slipped by our QA testers *winks at FourthX* -- delete pball/serverlist.dat and try again.  Actually, before you delete it, could you email it to jitspoeAtplanetquakeDOTcom?  I want to make sure it's the same error I experienced.  I've already got a fix in for build 14, but I want to make sure it's the same thing.
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: ST!FFI on November 17, 2004, 04:49:23 PM
actaully it is empty
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: jitspoe on November 18, 2004, 09:06:39 AM
The file is empty? or the serverlist?
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: Shot Myself on November 21, 2004, 05:16:49 PM
Hey can you fix the problem with the name change.  To put in more discriptive words, when I canged the user from my bro's name to mine (we have two diffrent savegame files) I have to exit the game otherwise it displayes "noname" during gameplay.

Thanks,
ShotMyself

p.s. I forgot my password and I tryied the "forgot password?" thingy but it still didn't e-mail me my password  ???.
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: jitspoe on November 21, 2004, 06:40:17 PM
Can you give some more details?  You have two different config files, and when you switch to a different one it sets your name to "noname"?  Could you email me the configs?  jitspoeATplanetquakeDOTcom.

As for the "forgot password" deal -- I guess the sendmail program isn't working.  I emailed you about it.
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: MaNiaC on November 22, 2004, 06:15:29 AM
WHY DONT I HAVE GRAFFTITI PAINT SERVERS IN MY SERVER-LIST !!!!!!!! I HAVE SOME OTHERS!!! GP SERVERS ARE NOT EVEN DARK COLORED !!!  :'( :-/ ??? >:( :(
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: c0MBAT on November 22, 2004, 06:42:05 AM
graffiti servers suck anyway. apex gaming servers are 99999999x better.
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: jitspoe on November 22, 2004, 02:25:15 PM
They were removed because of admin abuse, server hacks, and neglecting to upgrade.
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: ShotMyself on November 22, 2004, 08:00:12 PM
Thanks for the jitspoe for e-mailing me the pwd.

Ok say I'm playing a match Aura comes in so I switch my config with my name with no colors, which is identical except no colors, my name appears as "noname" during gameplay, but in the options menu under player setup its "ShotMyself".  The only way my name appears as "ShotMyself" during gameplay is after exiting dp2 and starting it again.
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: Excalibur on November 22, 2004, 11:48:41 PM
i think what he is trying to say is this "he has 2 configs config A and config B. config A has a fun name on it with colors, config B doesn't. when he is playing with config A but then someone comes in and says change "it for some odd reason". he changes it to config B but then it just shows his name as "noname".  
is that right shot?
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: jitspoe on November 23, 2004, 12:54:34 PM
Even if you change your name and change it back it still says noname?  Can you email me the config files so I can test it?  jitspoeATplanetquakeDOTcom
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: ShotMyself on November 23, 2004, 02:00:53 PM
Exactly Excalibur.  even if I switch it back then it still shows "noname".  I'll send you the configs jitspoe.
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: jitspoe on November 23, 2004, 06:34:56 PM
Ok, thanks for the bug report and for sending the config files.  I'm testing it right now -- it looks like there's a lot more going wrong than just the name.  Hopefully I'll have it fixed for the next version.

Edit: update, I've fixed the name thing -- still trying to figure out why it's doing the other stuff.  it's really weird -- it messes up all the entities on the server, like sometimes paintballs won't disappear -- they'll just stick on the wall like they were superglued there, and it thinks there are a bunch of clients on that aren't... eventually it results in a crash.

Edit2: Fixed the rest of it -- apparently you could change maxclients with the seta command, even though you're not supposed to be able to.  It does all kinds of crazy things.  I recorded a demo of a paint grenade.  Even though grenade ffire was on, it didn't kill me:

Download here (http://www.planetquake.com/digitalpaint/devel/crazygrens.zip).  Extract to paintball2/pball/demos and load it through the menu or type "map crazygrens.dm2"
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: ShotMyself on November 24, 2004, 11:14:58 AM
Thanks, wow my config so buged up? lol ;D

Nice demo lol
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: jitspoe on November 24, 2004, 01:37:26 PM
The problem was simply that your maxclients was different than mine, so when I loaded your config, it made things go crazy.  I had mine set at 40 and yours was 16.  That's all fixed now though.
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: ShotMyself on November 25, 2004, 02:48:53 PM
Well I use 56k  :-[ cough... cough... lol. Could that be the reason for not having 40 clients?
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: Delirious on November 26, 2004, 07:19:06 AM
Could we see a little more information in the logs?

Like connection information such as IP so that hackers can be tracked. Also I would like to see the killed players equipment as well. Maybe a few other variables for statistics, like barrel, hopper, air, etc.. And password attempt failures.

Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: Feuerfuchs on November 26, 2004, 12:00:06 PM
Hi all,

Jit, why did you remove the graffiti paint servers, the match server (m1,m2,m3) are importend to all of us! They are the only server we can use for a match or something else! Can't you get them back?

Greetz,
Feuerfuchs
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: matt on November 27, 2004, 05:42:51 AM
why does it say please make sure you have an open gl video card or the latest drivers installed, i have a brand new computer that cost like 5000 dollars and im sure its capable to play this game but it doesnt work.
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: jitspoe on November 28, 2004, 09:56:55 PM
ShotMyself: It's simply a setting you can change, but you're not supposed to be able to change it mid-game because it allocates things specially for clients.  It's all fixed now -- thanks for bringing it up.

Delirious: It doesn't log the IP?  I know it displays it at the console.  As for password attempt failures -- are you referring to trying to connect to a passworded server, or trying to login?  Logins are logged to the console.  I can add more info to the logs, but it seems a little excessive to log the entire player inventory.  In the grand scheme of things it probably doesn't make that much difference (I assume you're wanting it for statistics?) and makes things more complicated.  Also, writing too much data to the logs can make the server lag.  We noticed this testing it way back when (with just the current log system) -- I suppose it's not so much of an issue with todays hardware, but it used to be things like multiple kills in one frame would make the server pause momentarily.

Feuerfuchs:  There are a number of reasonsthe graffiti servers were removed from the list, but we'll simply sum it up as "admin abuse."  I'd hate for new players to try the game out and have some of the experiences I hear people talking about (on pretty much a daily basis).  You can get the match server ip's from http://www.match.er33t.com/ and connect manually just fine (bring down the console with ~ and type "connect 69.93.11.66:27916", for example).  Usually for matches you connect manually anyway.

matt:  Your problem was addressed in a another thread (http://dynamic5.gamespy.com/~digitalpaint/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=bugs;action=display;num=1101685685).  When you get a new computer you always need to go out and find the latest drivers for everything -- or at least key things like sound and video.  The drivers Windows installs automatically generally are not sufficient.
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: . on November 29, 2004, 02:42:02 PM
It's overall look is of course cool, the better options (After Menu when game is in progress) are part of it and make you feel like you got "Complete Control" over most of the options.

The only part I've been having difficulty with is I don't get the full server list as most are reporting. Only the Apex servers and "Personal" ones, but it's still missing about half of the list.

Sometimes, (This might seem strange) but I can't tell if the round has ended because I'm so used to the "End Of Round-Blue Win etc.) instead of "You Killed J)

I think it might be slightly cooler to have the player ID already on since this seems to be what people like, so they can tell who people are...ask what their doing...etc.

The last part that was better was the Menu area didn't feel so "Slow" and everything felt like it ran smoother.

Anyway...pretty cool  ;D
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: ShotMyself on November 29, 2004, 02:55:56 PM
Quote
ShotMyself: It's simply a setting you can change, but you're not supposed to be able to change it mid-game because it allocates things specially for clients.  It's all fixed now -- thanks for bringing it up.


No thank you jitspoe, your the man.
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: meat on November 30, 2004, 05:32:26 PM
Jits, I haven't had any problems (fingers crossed) with this release, and I must say, nice job.
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: Hobo on February 21, 2005, 01:38:39 AM
  It's not really a build 13 problem but more of the new servers problem.  The idle timeout shouldn't be the same as the respawn time.  If the default idle timeout could be set 5-10 seconds longer than the default respawn time then I wouldn't go idle nearly so often.  It quite fustrating when you're camering someone and respawn only to idle out.
   Thanks
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: jitspoe on February 21, 2005, 12:28:11 PM
I'll change the default idle time for the next version, but in the meantime, it's up to the admins to "cvar_set idle 65" (or "rcon pass set idle 65", or put it in the config, whatever...)
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: loial21 on February 28, 2005, 03:59:09 PM
ok so i did it , ya happy?  you better say yes!!!

couple of things on this but first

1. Why the hell did my fps jump from 150 to 320 on avg ? not complaining just wondering
before you ask vsync disabled on both

2. The mouse sensetivty bar in the menu is twice as sensitive as quake 2's, no wonder your were fliping out about my question, sorry now i know. 

I got a couple of more questions about alpha 13 in reagrds to the way the ball flies, however i need to play more to make sure what i am viewng is accurate.

Overall not bad as a stand alone seems to load more effienctly and alt-enter is very seemless nice job.

3. Replaceing your textures and models with q2's, can this be done?

4. I assume i can customize my own sounds?

Also to save download times on maps that are not in pb2 folder (had to download from apex2 qpb2 tourney map) Can i simply tranfers my q2 maps over and dump them in my pbs stand-alone folder?
 

will have more questions later, also thankyou for making the start game feature so much easier than q2 .
5. How ez it to import maplists?
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: jitspoe on February 28, 2005, 06:46:06 PM
1. Because it's better. ;)
2. Yeah.  I might up it a little more for the crazy people, but I don't know.
Ball flight is exactly the same -- that's all done on the server side.  The client just displays the models.
3. Standalone supports all of the quake2 stuff, so yes, you can copy old models/textures over.  JPEG's and TGA's take priority over .wal and .pcx though, so you have to either delete the jpeg/tga or convert the .wal to a jpeg/tga file and replace it.  If you prefer certain textures over the new ones, let me know so I can work to improve the new ones.  The whole point of this is to make it better, not worse. :)
4. Yes, and we do need some better sounds, so if you make better ones give them to me and I can include them in new releases.
You can just copy your maps directory over from quake2/pball, yes.
5. Maplists are just text files.  They're easy to make, and with the new version you can even remotely edit maplists while the server is running! :)
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: Eiii on February 28, 2005, 07:20:57 PM
Jits, could you make it so that the ball flight accounts for water, even small chunks that it normally goes through? You could just have it check if there's any water from position 1 to 2, and slow down/stop accordingly.
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: loial21 on February 28, 2005, 08:01:33 PM
any explantion of why my fps jumped ?
almost doubled like as if vsync as enbaled but wasnt, wierd.
what did you do to optimize fps .
smoke is not as effective ...btw less blinding :(
in the center the same but the farther away  you get the less effective it seems. 
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: jitspoe on February 28, 2005, 09:04:33 PM
eiii: I could, but water friction is already there checked on a per-frame basis.  Checking between the frames seems like overkill.  In reality there wouldn't be thin chunks of water floating in the air like some maps have, anyway. :)

loial21:  What video card do you have?  I did work around a bug in the ATi drivers that caused severe slowdown.  Other than that just misc. optimizations here and there.
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: Eiii on March 01, 2005, 08:52:57 AM
But, for fences. If people just want the ball to lose velocity, what can they do?
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: jitspoe on March 01, 2005, 01:00:39 PM
Fences?  Well, a ball wouldn't just lose velocity if it hits a fence, it would break.  I want to make some sort of "probability" brush that will give a ball a certain % chance of making it through without breaking (for things like fences and tree branches).  Nothing like that exists yet, though.  You either have to make it solid or mist with a clip brush so you can shoot through it.
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: loial21 on March 07, 2005, 07:22:01 PM
Dear Sir,

     I have come to the conclusion that the way capping is being done sucks.

   Worse case and most often when only one player left on per team (castle1,renior,brainstorm,etc...) and both just grabed the flag, you can literaly chase each other around till the cows come home (how fun is that ? anwser meh!) or sit by cap zone and wait for your team to respawn so that they can hunt down flag (how fun is that? anwser meh!) 

Now I know you know all of this however, My point is this , ITS PHAQING BORING!!!!  :) and you know this!!!

IS there any way to make cap end of round instead?

Thanks poopy



Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: Eiii on March 07, 2005, 09:49:43 PM
Jits-- do that. the % thing.
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: jitspoe on March 07, 2005, 11:24:36 PM
The % thing?  Oh, thought you were talking about loial's post.  It can be done, though I'm not sure how to make map editors and compilers support it...  It would basically require a new surface flag, I think.

Loial:  Your "point" is a matter of opinion.  Personally I get quite a rush when it's flag carrier vs. flag carrier.  Running back to your base is easy, but if you can't capture the flag, you're forced into confrontation (which I thought you liked, but apparently you're more interested in seeing numbers on the scoreboard go up?).  The reasoning for this default setting change is simple: CTF is a team-based game.  If there's just 1 person alive on each team, then it's not a team anymore, it's just 1v1.  With the old settings, 1v1 could score 10 or 20 points in a single round just making flag run after flag run.  That's just silly, especially on maps like castle1 where it was "cap, cap, game over."  The outcome of the match practically rested solely on a single person, not the team.  The new settings require more teamwork and strategy -- you need a solid offense (to get the flag) and defense (to prevent the other team from grabbing your flag so the carrier can cap).  Sometimes the defense becomes the offense or visa versa in order to track down the enemy flag carrier and score points as a team effort.  Sure, there are times when newbies wander around or camp instead of chasing down the flag carrier and make the round go on longer than it should, but that's more a fault of the players, not the rules.  As more people become accustomed to the new gameplay, I think it will continue to improve.  Personally I feel it's miles better than what it used to be.  Then again, I prefer strategy to rush-and-spray. ;)

And by default on the newer version, flag captures end the round... not sure what your asking there.
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: loial21 on March 08, 2005, 12:55:50 AM
Foremost thanks for the logical feed back and your time poopy.

"With the old settings, 1v1 could score 10 or 20 points in a single round just making flag run after flag run.  That's just silly, especially on maps like castle1 where it was "cap, cap, game over."     not so jitspoe if first cap ends round. wtf why do i have to (of all dum b asses)  point this out

Remember your game has become more "public" in regards to game play, thus the influx of "run and gun" you know this :)

Flags that are brought back to capture points are not being counted first , second that should end round. NO MATTER WHERE YOUR FLAG IS if you cap enemies flag ROUND OVER.. exmaple. apex 2 i belive or official test server?  btw good job on making it alpha only

thanks for the feed back i am sorry it took a semi loial rant to get your opinion ..carry on smart one
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: jitspoe on March 08, 2005, 12:46:26 PM
So somebody should be able to score the team 5 (or 15 on castle1) points just because he can run faster and the other team's flag carrier gets nothing?  I don't like that idea.  I mean, the server can be set up to run that way already, but I think it would play horribly.  It removes teamwork and combat and just becomes a flag race.
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: Eiii on March 08, 2005, 07:38:04 PM
I would know. It does. And it sucks.
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: loial21 on March 08, 2005, 07:56:22 PM
again i must disagree,

"other team's flag carrier gets nothing"

THATS THE WHOLE POINT!!!

It would be his teams fault for not playing more defensive. (agreed?) a simple yes or no will answer will suffice. please anwser

Again cap cap cap is boring. Waiting for your opppent to die or looking for him is just as boring. Knowing you have to prevent a grab or cap "FORCES" teamwork and  confrontation, which is something we can all agree on.

  If not please explain why cap ending round would not force teamwork and confrontation (please be specific). This questions is open for all

 "It removes teamwork and combat and just becomes a flag race."  =opinionated state why?
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: jitspoe on March 08, 2005, 09:33:40 PM
Because people aren't going to try and shoot the other person, they're going to try to book it back to their base as fast as possible.  A whole team shouldn't gain or lose 15 points because a single person can strafe jump faster than another.  That's just horrible game design.
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: Eiii on March 09, 2005, 06:41:20 PM
Jits, you should keep in mind what game he wants-- which is unfortunatly what we have right now.

You need to make some huge gameplay change in the next build, or nothing is going to change.
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: loial21 on March 09, 2005, 11:56:01 PM
jitspoe? 15 points?  I meant 5 points round ends on cap despite which flag or regardless the amount of players!!!

I asked you how can this not promote teamwork? (or i should have)

1. This prevents the cap cap cap which we all agree is the lamest thing in the older versions (yes or no?)

2. This also would prevent everyone rushing to flag as the need for a good defense would logically change the game, depsite map or player. (yes or no?)

Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: jitspoe on March 10, 2005, 12:28:39 AM
castle1 -- if it's 1v1, both players will likely grab both flags, then it's an all-out rush to return to base.  They won't try to confront each other because that will take away from precious flag-rushing time.  I, for one, would be really ticked off if I was like 2 inches from capping and the other guy beat me and got 15 points while I got nothing.
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: loial21 on March 10, 2005, 12:39:54 AM
that is one out how many maps you would only get 15 points? 

second you have completly ignored my second point ,

Quote
I, for one, would be really ticked off if I was like 2 inches from capping and the other guy beat me and got 15 points while I got nothing.

THAT IS MY WHOLE POINT!!!

It forces you (if your a reponsible/smart/strategy team playe) to play like a team with good recon.



 

 
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: Eiii on March 10, 2005, 08:31:43 AM
Recon is something we're trying to get rid of.

And Jits means that if neither flag is at base, and niether person can cap, you need someone to get their flag back before anyone can cap, making the battle bigger, and much more satisifing.
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: loial21 on March 10, 2005, 08:05:00 PM
First off, who the hell is we? really who?

Third get rid off recon? How?  wtf ha ha your kidiing right that is laughable (keep in mind i have never used ts) you truly do want to get rid of teamwork.

   Fourth I know what Jitspoe means, I dont get how that is better than cap flag ends rounds when there is only 2 people left. And to say its not fair is cop-out pure and simple.
 
   For example lets say someone has better shooting skills than your self,  Is it unfair then to kill that person? Or if someone(like myself) who dont have any jumping skills (cant make backdoor jump on castle1) is being beaten is it then fair to continue that match? Or if someone is faster than me is then ok for the admin to restart the game. I think not.

   My point is this those are skills you aquire by practicing by playing why punish someone who is more skilled than another.  Please explain how that is unfair

Jitspoe do you have any plans to the community vote for changes?
What did Mut mean when he said somehting about irc clique?

Lastly  Suck my balls mr garrison 
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: Eiii on March 11, 2005, 08:58:56 AM
You make it sound like we don't like teamwork.

I assumed by "recon" you meant talking to your teammates with teamspeak when you're dead. That's a bad thing, because they can just follow him around, getting rid of any need of stragitic placement.

And we're not punishing the "more skilled" one. It's just that this isn't a game of running. It's a game of confrontation. And the better you are at confrontation, the more you deserve to win. Why punish one player because he got stuck on a rock, or in a stream? That doesn't seem fair to me.
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: loial21 on March 11, 2005, 02:59:47 PM
why puniish the other player because that one got stuck , that makes no sense . your punishing the well skilled player pure and simple , why (jitspoe please answer)

recon enchances teamwork . no obligates teamwork. now after there dead , that is another thing however. and agreeable 
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: jitspoe on March 11, 2005, 04:10:32 PM
your punishing the well skilled player pure and simple
How so?

(It's "you're", btw. :))
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: loial21 on March 11, 2005, 07:12:02 PM
   I ask you first but since i am the more reasonable and desperate of us 2 i will anwser first.

   Ranked in order by skills you need to learn to be fastest to the flag and back for cap (least to hardest) in my opinion.

1. Knowing how to scrafe jump faster than your enemy fastest player.

2. Knowing the shortest or least used path to base (i know you can appriciate that(jerk killing me on jump))

3. Knowing how to "double jump" correctly (which i have now clue how to do)

4. Reflexes during confrontation.


By not allowing the more skilled player/team (by skilled i meen the smarter,faster and better reflexed player/team)to be rewarded for smarter play and better skills.

  So lets say a team just walked into your base and back and cap end of round. Logically speaking if your playing as a team you will be more inclined to play more defensive and careful not to rush and die right away (exactly what you looking to prevent jitspoe).

btw how so ? comon jitspoo that is answered in my post before

Why punish the person who was able to to use his knowledge of the map and his hard earned ability to master the q2 engine just becuase the enemy was not as skilled (as mentioned before 1 2 3 4) or did not know that move would get him stuck or slow him down?

 That is what is not fair and you know this, i really feel like your baiting me.

 Ya freak now anwser MY questions.

waiting for your wisdom.

Loial
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: BigT on March 12, 2005, 01:32:38 AM
I really like the new version and i havent had any problems with it but it seems like there are a lot of people who are refusing to update and it makes me muy triste  :(
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: jitspoe on March 12, 2005, 01:46:31 AM
loial:

Say for a moment we go with your skewed logic and say it is "fair."  There is another element that comes into play here:  Balance.  Just because somebody is slightly better than you doesn't mean he should always win.  What fun is that?  The main objective of this game isn't who can run the fastest -- in fact, when it was first created nobody really even knew about strafe jumping -- it's about team-based strategy.  Giving a single player the ability to score a large number of points based solely on a single skill (one that shouldn't even be required to play) is absurd.  It's incredibly unbalanced.  It's bad game design.  It makes new players say, "Screw that.  I quit."  Losing every time you play a new game doesn't encourage you to practice for 5 years so you might be able to win some, it frustrates you.

Think about it, if every time a new player grabbed a flag, he had no chance of returning it to base on time, do you think he would continue to play?  Newbies get brutally raped as it is.  Why should I punish them even further by making difficult goals flat out impossible?

Also, you didn't really answer my question -- how is requiring the flag to be at home punishing a skilled player?  If they are so skilled it should not be difficult to track down and kill the enemy flag carrier.
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: loial21 on March 12, 2005, 01:00:48 PM
i have updated btw , not bad but I cant see the ball fly as well ( i will explain in larger detail later) :(  ,  so unless I have to i will continue to use q2 , sorry

i understand your point jitspoe , "screw that i quit" , will kill the game. which is the point i was at , i will get over it (fooker)

i had great fun last night however i dont like waiting for others to KILL THE ENEMY while i am sitting at cap my fisrt point. i guess that wont ever change so ill stop female dogin ....about that

now on to somehting else can we please keep track of how many actual points an person scores per map, I meen you have other invidual scores  slots any chance of removing total grabs and replacing it with grabs that scored . it only makes sense to count those in a personal scoreing  , and if not why?

for instance i scored a lot of points for my team by grabing and getting two points .  But could not gloat since i had now way of proving my value to my team :(

:) thanks for the fun at pickup poopy.  good idea


c ya next week


btw i felt i made my argument and besides i ask u first jerko


 
 

 
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: jitspoe on March 12, 2005, 10:27:32 PM
If you don't like waiting, do it yourself. :)

As for your second request, how do you qualify what points were earned by an individual?  Say person A captures the flag.  That's great, but it wouldn't be fair to give JUST person A 5 points, because while person A was grabbing, person B defended the team's flag, person C shot the guy that would have killed person A, and person D laid down suppressing fire giving person A enough time to return the flag. They all deserve 5 points, and that's what they get, in big red numbers up on the HUD.

Also, something like that would discourage teamwork.  Everybody would want to get those 5 points added to their score, so suddenly person A, B, C, and D are all fighting with each other trying to grab the flag rather than working as a team.  You shouldn't be trying to compete with your own teammates!  Besides, gloating is annoying and immature, and if not implementing this stops you from gloating, great! :)
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: loial21 on March 13, 2005, 01:50:11 AM
i ment counting in scoreing (f2)

 grabs that counted as 2 points for your team, instead of grabs that resulted in no points scored.

get it got it good?

comon jits how many times do u get five points for just a grab?

btw i get er done. look at my teams ownage , dispite my best effort i managed to nadel my self on jump with flag at cap, or do u forget?



Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: jitspoe on March 13, 2005, 04:20:00 PM
So a grab only counts as a grab if the grabber captures the flag or is holding it when the round ends?
Quote
can we please keep track of how many actual points an person scores per map
From this I thought you meant the total number of points an "individual" scored for the team, which would be 5 in the case of a flag capture.

Let me pose a few scenarios: Person A fights his way into the enemy base, grabs the flag, and eliminates 3 players before getting eliminated himself.  Person B picks up the flag and eliminates the last player.  Who should get the grab point?

What if Person A grabbed the flag and was immediately shot, then Person B picked up the flag and eliminated 3 or 4 people, winning the round.  Who should get the grab point then?  How do you objectively determine somebody's value to the team?

Also, what about 1-flag maps.  You don't get 2 points for holding the flag at the end of the round.  How would people get grab points then?
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: loial21 on March 13, 2005, 09:10:59 PM
you do get 2 points for haveing the flag if round ends ? :(

thats how we beat you on pickup with me having the flag at the end of most rounds on jump, i just want you to take out the grab catagory in the scoreboard and replace it with or add it with a catagory of how many times round ended and you had flag, that freaking smiple.

Quote
Let me pose a few scenarios: Person A fights his way into the enemy base, grabs the flag, and eliminates 3 players before getting eliminated himself.  Person B picks up the flag and eliminates the last player.  Who should get the grab point?
they player that lived and has flag (2points)

Quote
What if Person A grabbed the flag and was immediately shot, then Person B picked up the flag and eliminated 3 or 4 people, winning the round.  Who should get the grab point then? 
they player who had the flag at the end of the round (2points).

Quote
Also, what about 1-flag maps
you should be awarding  the last team left with flag one point if not two point(why you dont do this remains a mystery). Seems like you could fix some problems by correcting this. tied scores and all





Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: jitspoe on March 14, 2005, 09:44:16 PM
On most 1-flag maps, it's far to easy to grab the flag (since nobody is defending it), thus the 2-point bonus only applies to team flags, where grabbing the flag is more of a challenge.

Your request unfortunately isn't a minor change.  Now that the scoreboard is done client-side, making a change like that would break compatibilty with different versions, which I don't want to do just yet, especially for a change this small.  Perhaps at a later point.
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: loial21 on March 15, 2005, 01:40:21 AM
      Bows at your attention.

   My concern is a selfish one, however u really need to consider it is harder to grab and live with flag at round's end. Then just a grab a flag then die w/o flag before rounds end. Which is how you count personal scoring. I say BOOO! 

  Again its easy to grab flag but to end round with it is really hard or easy despite teamwork.
let alone cappin them/it (flags)

   That is why teams are rewarded with 2 points, which should also count in personal scoring and not just grabs with out scoring.

Ok here comes the truth regarding one flag maps scoring

Quote
On most 1-flag maps, it's far to easy to grab the flag (since nobody is defending it)

  You said its ez to grab flag, sure how ez is it for you to live after grab )

  How may one flag maps (which are few and far between due to admins) dont players rush to flag to grab?

at this point i wil respectfully await your or others insight
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: jitspoe on March 15, 2005, 07:53:00 AM
More often than not, 1-flag map rounds end with somebody holding the flag.  Either team can grab the flag, so whoever kills the carrier usually grabs the flag right away.
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: loial21 on April 04, 2005, 08:10:15 PM
and so on and so on.....

I belive one point should be awarded ..please :)
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: ShotMyself on April 04, 2005, 08:13:24 PM
Wow Its been awhile for me and I see I've been missing out.

First of all loial21, I understand every project needs criticisim other wise nothing would realy get done, but when you go and start insulting the owner (creator) of a project, it is low.  And if you don't like it find another game, or make it on your own and host it so we could see how badly it would suck!!!

I come from the Raven Shield community and am a Moder for the game of Raven Shield.  As you might careless, but we do not have the official SDK from the great company of Ubi Soft (sarcasim levels rising).
 I made the first non-overwrinting Weapons mod, using someones decompiled and modified SDK (which was painfull at times).  Even thou my first Mod only had 1 weapon, the community was very greatfull.
When I released my second Mod I got more positive feedback, because I added suport for Scopes + Silencers + High Capacity Mags. Which the original dev team didn't.  This made the community even happier because a lot of people have been whating to have all the gadgets on the weapon.

Now I have the the v 1.3 coming out soon, which lets you play it despite the recent patch that Ubi Soft releaced (that blocked all Mod support).  Now I have a alpha testing team of nice size, even a Mac side tester  ;D, and the Community is great fully for what they got, from my mod, and I do take requests and tips but the stuff your asking for plus with that additude.

Good job jitspoe, I try to play your mod when ever I can, but I've been too busy with life and my mod.  Keep it up!
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: jitspoe on April 04, 2005, 11:07:08 PM
Yeah, I know how that goes -- I hardly have time to play paintball, let alone other mods!
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: loial21 on April 05, 2005, 06:15:58 PM
    Loial is insulting and with an attitude??? Ok, mabey I could see how sometimes I am a whinebot about issues that I belive should be addressed. But that is hardly being insulting, If your looking for people insulting jitspoe you could not have done worse.


Dear Shotmyself,
 FIrst nice to meet ya!!
   Wow you seem a very smart person in regards to game programming, good for you. I however am not and when I ask to have stuff done its being asked out of ignorance and asked with a smile or in my god simplex, in either case its done with intention of makeing the reader smile. You should have more of a heart for those who dont know what you and Jitspoe do. For example you might have gone to school to learn what you have, I on the other hand did not Major in programming but in the Tele-com field.
    Jitspoe seems to know this and has shown me nothing but respect and an dare I say friendship (your so happy), oh and the slaps to the face. Even Jitspoe would be lying if he said that I was not humble, respectful, caring, first to apologize and a GOD to all the ladies !!! (kiss)
    On top of which you took something out of text (speaking of if your going to accuse some one of being insulting please be kind enough and be specific) and spoke harshly to someone you dont know. I dont know where you come from but here in Texas that is considered rude. Or better phrased "them is fighting words son"
j/k. 

   But really for you to point my out as an exmaple of being rude to the Devolpers , well you picked the weakest and worst example, congradulations. 

I all i have asked for was to mirror America's Army global accounts, a sniper class weapon to promote teamwork and for god's sake fix the illegable server message that crashes my game.

If my ranting was hurtfull, I am sorry. What am not sorry for is my love for this game . 

Lastly give me what i want.
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: ShotMyself on April 06, 2005, 08:21:34 AM
    Loial is insulting and with an attitude??? Ok, mabey I could see how sometimes I am a whinebot about issues that I belive should be addressed. But that is hardly being insulting, If your looking for people insulting jitspoe you could not have done worse.


Dear Shotmyself,
 FIrst nice to meet ya!!
   Wow you seem a very smart person in regards to game programming, good for you. I however am not and when I ask to have stuff done its being asked out of ignorance and asked with a smile or in my god simplex, in either case its done with intention of makeing the reader smile. You should have more of a heart for those who dont know what you and Jitspoe do. For example you might have gone to school to learn what you have, I on the other hand did not Major in programming but in the Tele-com field.
    Jitspoe seems to know this and has shown me nothing but respect and an dare I say friendship (your so happy), oh and the slaps to the face. Even Jitspoe would be lying if he said that I was not humble, respectful, caring, first to apologize and a GOD to all the ladies !!! (kiss)
    On top of which you took something out of text (speaking of if your going to accuse some one of being insulting please be kind enough and be specific) and spoke harshly to someone you dont know. I dont know where you come from but here in Texas that is considered rude. Or better phrased "them is fighting words son"
j/k. 

   But really for you to point my out as an exmaple of being rude to the Devolpers , well you picked the weakest and worst example, congradulations. 

I all i have asked for was to mirror America's Army global accounts, a sniper class weapon to promote teamwork and for god's sake fix the illegable server message that crashes my game.

If my ranting was hurtfull, I am sorry. What am not sorry for is my love for this game . 

Lastly give me what i want.

Nice to meet you too, but I belive I've might have played against you in some matches back last year.

I am not totaly aware of whats going on and if it was just playfull rudeness to jitspoe, but when I rad throught the posts, I did notice lots and lots of letting down and cusing at jitspoe. 

Now I didnot got through special education, for fact I'm only almost 17.

Jitspoe knows the quake 2 engine pretty well does a good job at it.  I do not belive I know the fraction of the Unreal Engine as well as he does the quake engine.

I understand that you would like some of those features, maybe perhaps a new gametype will be a good solution, just try being a little more polite if you actualy respect this project of his.

Sorry if I insulted you loial21, but I belive jitspoe deserves a lot of possitve feedback for the great mod of his work (kept me coming back to play more for more then 6 months).
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: jitspoe on April 06, 2005, 10:02:02 AM
Quote
and for god's sake fix the illegable server message that crashes my game.
AFAIK it's fixed.  Not my fault you won't upgrade. :)
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: loial21 on April 06, 2005, 05:08:24 PM
After using  your alpha I will.

Two things that effect my game play. One of which i need to just get over i.

The ball flight which has been brought to your attention and your rag doll effect makes me doubt with the player has stoped or is dying ? I perfer to know the enemy was killed by them flying just a little back, tis the q2 way :)


again thanks for your attention


*edit

Shotmyself, 

If you have played dp in the last 3 years, then we have played. I however have nevered matched in dp :)

I try my best not to be 2 demanding however pethitic it is I have played more q2 dp then any one alive :( I feel I have a right to explain the best I can (which is not very good) what i have enjoyed most in online gaming not just  Jitspoe wonderful creation :)
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: jitspoe on April 06, 2005, 07:28:07 PM
Ball flight is done server side, so it doesn't matter which client you're using; it will always be the same.

Rag doll?  There's no ragdoll physics... I wish it were that advanced, but no.  Still standard Q2 stuff.  The player model/death animations are different; that's all.  You're probably just not used to them.  We'll be redoing the models, though, once I get a new model format in.

Oh, and I find it hard to believe you've played more pb2 than anyone else. :)
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: loial21 on April 06, 2005, 09:51:55 PM
Ok, large statment but hours logged in public er33t and gt the past 4years that is all. Me and Mut are a close 1st and second but ask around....

New Player Models .. how about custom skins?

Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: jitspoe on April 07, 2005, 10:47:52 AM
What I have in mind for skins is a variety of player-selectable pants/shirts/masks that could be used in various combinations.  I don't know if we'll do completely custom skins because people might start making and using cammo skins or skins with the wrong colors just to be cheap.
Title: Re: Build 013 Feedback
Post by: loial21 on April 07, 2005, 04:58:23 PM
Ok i have seen the invisible skins, but what about differnt player models :) like male/female/cyborg/cracksexually promiscuous person...etc ?