Digital Paint Discussion Board

Development => Mapping => Map Graveyard => Topic started by: MyeRs on April 20, 2013, 07:12:52 PM

Title: New Map: Noxious Canyon
Post by: MyeRs on April 20, 2013, 07:12:52 PM

FlaWLesS Mapping Presents:

Noxious Canyon

May not be as good as Applejuice.bsp ..... but it's iight ykno.

After scrapping numerous maps, asking people for ideas, scrapping more maps, I finally finished one I like. A lot of people in the community have seen this map at some stage of it's development, and I probably started it a year ago... but I randomly picked up BSP again and saw potential in it. So, I finished it. Every mistake is there for a reason.

I would generally PREFER comments on gameplay over appearance. If the gameplay doesn't turn out good, then there will be no reason to put hours into fixing the appearance.

This is the revival of the FlaWLesS Mapping series, stay tuned.

Title: Re: New Map: Noxious Canyon
Post by: nub on April 20, 2013, 08:46:02 PM

remake of valley

Title: Re: New Map: Noxious Canyon
Post by: BASEBALLDUDE on April 20, 2013, 08:50:25 PM

Looks pretty good.

Title: Re: New Map: Noxious Canyon
Post by: jitspoe on April 20, 2013, 09:42:46 PM

Ok, gameplay feedback only:

The overall path layout seems pretty good.  My main complaint is that a lot of the main paths require trick jumps for no apparent reason other than just to have them, making the map less accessible to new players.  For example, the room with the bunker in it has a double jump out, and kind of a weird strafe jump or double jump into the window to flag 2.  These really serve no purpose other than barrier to entry for new players.  That whole area could probably be elevated so you could have a path straight into flag 2 and skip the double jump.  Also, getting out from flag 2, there's a double/triple jump out of the window, which is way faster than taking the back path.  The back path seems unnecessarily long and windy.  Also in that room, there's a grass texture on a slope that's not walkable - for consistency, all slopes with grass textures should be walkable.  Several players confused the flag 2 platform as the capture point.

The high corridor paths have a lot of hard angles and just feel empty and awkward to navigate.  The long strafe jump across also seems unnecessary and will stop a lot of new players from taking the high path.

I'd alter the flag 1 platform.  If you jump at the wrong time, you end up in the water and have to back up to jump again.  It could be really annoying at a critical moment.  Going from flag 1 out main, I find myself running into a lot of things.  The angled part of the door opening goes down far enough that I seem to catch my head on it a lot.  If I go left, along the outer wall, there's a barrel placed right in the path.  If I go right, there's a rock right in the path.  If I veer further right I end up having to jump on the boards, then I'm too far right and end up clipping the wall before the ramp.  That ramp is also another medium to new player barrier.  You could easily make it traversable without needing speed or leave it like is and add a ladder to make it accessible.

Sort of gameplay related: it would be nice to see more accurately sized barrels.

Title: Re: New Map: Noxious Canyon
Post by: MyeRs on April 20, 2013, 10:46:07 PM

Barrels - Yeah, I can change that for the next beta. It's cause I learned mapping from Cusoman and Rimini mainly, who convinced me the bigger barrels were better.

Trick jumps - I wanted ways to have trick jumps for faster routes, but made sure there was always slower routes for new players. The trick jumps are pretty simple. But, I generally find maps with more jumps tend to get more attention, so I tried to add extra jumps in a lot of spots. Some may be too forced and could have been just terrain. I think they serve a purpose of allowing more skilled players to show their skill.

Empty - Yeah, I just am not very good at making nice bunkers or models, or any other filler. So, I thought it would look ugly with just barrels/crates randomly placed to fill up the ground. I'm unsure what to fill in the paths.

High path - it's meant to be longer - however I agree I should make it a bit shorter - but the purpose is getting there offensively - not defensively. It's way out of the way to go "camp" that spot. So, people should hopefully be deterred from camping it as people could rush into their main flag if they do. But, with high-main spawn you can make the speedjump to the "high-mid" point. Allowing you access to the caves between flag 1 and 2 - or just a high mid control point. I see it being a bad spot for pubs, as new players will slowly walk through it and likely get capped on via faster maps. That spot was purely made trying to break the potential "main-to-mid" linefest. So, it's more of a "break point" I guess. And also works as a spot used to force revives.

Flags - I'll change the flag 2 platform so it's apparent where the cap point is. I may just completely remove the water. I generally don't like water in maps, however I wanted a change of texture. So if I can manage to make a cool looking cap/flag point there to replace it, I'll completely remove the water.

Main/Frontdoor - I'll try to work on making it a more smooth transition from out of base to mid. I agree it's choppy with such a "sharp" turn kinda thing, and the rock's for jumps coming into base blocking the way.

GENERAL: I feel like in the stage the map is at right now, most of the thought out paths and assumed gameplay fit into an actual competitive scene (All speculation - but based on how I picture teams playing).  Since, we do not have that... is it better to keep it as simplistic as possible and attempt to create a map hoping it gets picked up in pubs rather than attempting one for the competitive scene?

Title: Re: New Map: Noxious Canyon
Post by: jitspoe on April 20, 2013, 11:04:52 PM

Ideally, it would cover both.  I think it's possible to make a map that's accessible to new players but has enough depth for the competitive scene. There really aren't many maps out there that have good visuals, balanced and accessible paths, good flow, and intuitive directionality.

Title: Re: New Map: Noxious Canyon
Post by: deadfroggy on April 21, 2013, 01:58:18 AM

Quote from: Whaley on April 20, 2013, 07:36:14 PM

Wow! Awesome map for a Awesome Mapper!!!! +1 OMG teach me? Better not teach DeadFroggy, Thanks!

F you intercoursed fat person. This is why the communitys excrement. At least im having a go at helping.

Back on topic great job myerz!

Title: Re: New Map: Noxious Canyon
Post by: RoBiNandL!nk on April 22, 2013, 12:22:33 PM

I jumped around it and it looked good but plain and lacking personality. I feel places like this should be packed with detailed supports, edged rocks, and more "filling" things to give the map more zing, more personality. Other than that the map looks great, good work.

edit- just saw orignal post oh well. It's really hard to test gameplay GL.

Title: Re: New Map: Noxious Canyon
Post by: RoBiNandL!nk on April 22, 2013, 12:23:19 PM

Quote from: MyeRs on April 20, 2013, 10:46:07 PM

Barrels - Yeah, I can change that for the next beta. It's cause I learned mapping from Cusoman and Rimini mainly, who convinced me the bigger barrels were better.

Bigger barrels are better. IMO they look better too.

Title: Re: New Map: Noxious Canyon
Post by: MyeRs on April 23, 2013, 10:00:11 PM

Matched on it a few times over the last few days, my comments:

- The high area wasn't used that much, and that high path "backdoor" needs to be adjusted
- Low only really gets used as a break point to get around camping - which is what I wanted
- The "BD jump" (that takes to the room between flag 1 and 2) gets lined a lot. Which was expected since it's the fastest path to grab.
- The mid played a bit awkward in my opinion with the different levels, I'm unsure what to change.
- Does feel very empty/boring in comparison with msot maps, however I lack the mapping skill to make pretty clutter.
- Brazilians hate this map, which is a bonus.

So, I need to add clutter - adjust mid to improve gameplay - and adjust high path. Also potentially make some jumps more newbie friendly, as some people did struggle a bit on what I think are easy jumps. I'll probably work on it over the next week, anyone feel like helping with making pretty clutter?

Title: Re: New Map: Noxious Canyon
Post by: Ace on April 24, 2013, 10:22:23 PM

The jumps make it insanely fast to get to the flag in comparison to the windy no jump lines. Two ways to grab in less than 8 seconds, demo 1 and 2, with the first one being the faster option.

It is fun to run around in and has a good flow. But, if you can't jump decently, this map would be pure hell.

Also, I feel like there's big chunks of the map good teams would never touch because they are so useless in comparison to the main routes.

Title: Re: New Map: Noxious Canyon
Post by: MyeRs on April 25, 2013, 10:07:27 AM

Quote from: Ace on April 24, 2013, 10:22:23 PM

Also, I feel like there's big chunks of the map good teams would never touch because they are so useless in comparison to the main routes.

This map has been played with the current best NA players, in 3 v 3's and 5 v 5's. Every path gets used. The high 'empty' path is the least used path - but still does get used. Those fast paths get lined, so you can't get to flags that fast. Also, there's only 1 spawn out of 6 high-base, so you don't spawn near that jump . Good teams don't go: "oh lets go the fastest path every round" - otherwise everyone would run PP1 speedjump every round. It gets lined. Other paths are used as break points. I had the same thought originally, didn't think low would ever get used but it was used a lot.

The speed is not a problem in the map. It played perfectly fine in that regard. There are other gameplay issues I've noticed after matching on it against different teams 10 times.

But I agree, this map has a problem of separating good jumpers from bad jumpers. Which I need to change otherwise it wont get picked up and played. I'm unsure which jumps need to be changed, though. Cause to me they are all easy, and I don't want to make them all ridiculously easy. However I have a lot of ideas planned for b2.

Title: Re: New Map: Noxious Canyon
Post by: Beppo on April 25, 2013, 10:47:40 AM

looks nice, it might help if u would make the high-to-high jump from a normal jump into a circle jump or sth else.

ps: dont know if u mentioned that "bug" alrdy

Title: Re: New Map: Noxious Canyon
Post by: Ace on April 25, 2013, 12:55:04 PM

Quote from: MyeRs on April 25, 2013, 10:07:27 AM

But I agree, this map has a problem of separating good jumpers from bad jumpers. Which I need to change otherwise it wont get picked up and played. I'm unsure which jumps need to be changed, though. Cause to me they are all easy, and I don't want to make them all ridiculously easy. However I have a lot of ideas planned for b2.

Yeah it's hard to tell which ones are hard. I think the lower path, not the underground one, where you have to jump at kind of an awkward angle to avoid hitting the walls could be changed to make the ground level path more efficient. It's really the only jump I saw as possibly problematic.

This jump:
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd8/max6565/can1.jpg)

Not sure if this was mentioned, but, grass, unwalkable.
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd8/max6565/can3.jpg)

And this was the one area I assumed wouldn't be used much. Am I wrong on this one?
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd8/max6565/can2.jpg)

Title: Re: New Map: Noxious Canyon
Post by: RoBiNandL!nk on April 25, 2013, 12:58:23 PM

If you wouldnt mind myers if i could test it with you next time you do. Just PM me on MIRC or i might be on ventrilo or LoL.

Title: Re: New Map: Noxious Canyon
Post by: MyeRs on April 25, 2013, 01:16:09 PM

Sure, Robin, but it's been mostly actually matching on it since Clipz put it on cP servers.

Ace: That room got used in 5s - it's not a room with action happening in it, but everything there gets used to some degree. There are some lines on there, and it's used as a connecting path to either main or out over the bridge. The low-up area in that room is also used far more than I expected.

Title: Re: New Map: Noxious Canyon
Post by: RoBiNandL!nk on April 25, 2013, 01:20:10 PM

Ohh thats a shame, I really need to join a clan.

Title: Re: New Map: Noxious Canyon
Post by: Influx on April 25, 2013, 05:45:00 PM

Looks sexy.

Title: Re: New Map: Noxious Canyon
Post by: MyeRs on June 12, 2020, 07:11:31 PM

Is there a way I can decompile this to get the .map file and make a b2?

It just crashes if I try to through BSP decompiler.

Title: Re: New Map: Noxious Canyon
Post by: ic3y on June 13, 2020, 01:50:08 AM

Quote from: MyeRs on June 12, 2020, 07:11:31 PM

Is there a way I can decompile this to get the .map file and make a b2?

It just crashes if I try to through BSP decompiler.

Remove the models from the bsp file (notepad) and decompile it. Should work.