Digital Paint Discussion Board
Development => Mapping => Map Graveyard => Topic started by: jitspoe on May 11, 2006, 07:14:07 PM
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I'm considering revising this map. Any suggestions? Here are some things that I have in mind:
- Add a second exit to the water, since the newbies can never seem to figure out how to get out.
- Remove the built-in wallhack where you can stand on the tunnel entrance and see the hallway.
- Get rid of the water tricks. There's no need for them now. The new water looks much better.
- Maybe add an additional high route with DSM so people don't get pinned down with spray.
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nice one
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you should add like a one secret not a big one one people can find out easily MABYE
not saying you should bou you know
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???
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Add a better layout of guns, It takes forever to get some stuff. Well not really but, if you go low which is high on that map its kinda like blah. Nothing there. Maybe a carbine in the middle of the tunnel? Actually, I do like midnight2. I hate midnight.
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- Remove the built-in wallhack where you can stand on the tunnel entrance and see the hallway.
Where is that?
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SkAtEr: The high path is the rush path -- you have the choice of rushing with stingrays and grabbing an autococker in the middle, or falling back to the base to grab some midrange weapons. I like the way it works, but some people feel they can't leave the base until they're loaded with a 20oz co2, 200 rounds, and a mid to high range gun. It only takes 1 shot to kill somebody. You don't need much. :)
bitmate: there's a door frame around the high tunnels. If you jump on top of it, you can see through the sky into the tunnel.
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BIGGER tunnels, where we dont have to worry about hitting our heads.
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......... Bigger tunnels is good, but I dont want them to be to big so 100 people can fit in them.
-Termin8oR
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any pictures LOL IM SEROUIS ANY PICS YET ID LIKE TO SEE HOW THIS TURNS OUT
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Go to the console and type, "map midnight2". That's how it stands right now.
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o iv'e already played mabye u can make a newer one ?
like better guns instead of the one put like the airtime guns in as the first ones
and its to cramped no affence
my spell check wont work sorry
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my spell check wont work sorry
you probably killed it already.. :/
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Figured I'd post some teasers. Every once in a while I pop this open and change some things. I've mostly just been adding detail and using more realistic proportions.
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now thats cool. I presume thats using high-res textures?
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Looks very very nice
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I like the way you've added LIGHT to the elim zone. Some of the newbies were a bit bemused about what the hell was happening at the elim zone
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looks nice
when adding paths and escape routes. think like a ferret! *dook dook dook* :)
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I will say this after hating this map ever since i first played it ITS MUCH BETTER from the screenshots point of view.
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I will say this after hating this map ever since i first played it ITS MUCH BETTER from the screenshots point of view.
One main reason a lot of new players dislike midnight and midnight 2 especially is that it isnt fast. There is no fluid path from oen side to the other. It takes a lot of work unlike some of the current popular maps that with a few jumps you're on teh other side of the map.
But these new screenies look great.
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WOW! :o Nice map. :D You're very good mapper. ;)
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I will say this after hating this map ever since i first played it ITS MUCH BETTER from the screenshots point of view.
I can't improve it if you don't tell me what you hate about it.
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The gameplay on midnight 2 isn't actually that bad, most people just hate it because it's "cool" to hate it. People in pubs call it a trash map so thus it becomes instilled in newbies' heads that it's a trash map from the first day they play.
That and people get so used to spawning with carbines and autocockers that they fall apart without a high range gun... Kinda sad really.
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I think it's mostly because Midnight 2 is a bunch of small, fairly cluttered areas that are connected together with hallways and such (which are just more small areas). This game doesn't play that well when you can't move around.
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I don't find the areas small or cluttered, with the exception of the cave-style hallways... those maybe could just be widened and have the roof raised a little, but the design of them is very aesthetically pleasing and, imho, gameplay intuitive.
People just don't like the map because it's "cool" to "hate on" jitspoe maps.
Not all maps need to be shazam33's where you fly 90000000 mph through windows and rings of fire and such..
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Maybe make a halfpipe2, the first one is nice ;)
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I've always liked it because it is....a good map. It offers newbies a chance to improve their aiming, reactions, etc. It can be quite easy to get lost in the spawn areas, though.
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One main reason a lot of new players dislike midnight and midnight 2 especially is that it isnt fast. There is no fluid path from oen side to the other. It takes a lot of work unlike some of the current popular maps that with a few jumps you're on teh other side of the map.
You said it from my point of view. Its like....cant think of another map right now but it would be interesting to see if a faster path were added how the gameplay would go along with it.
The gameplay on midnight 2 isn't actually that bad, most people just hate it because it's "cool" to hate it. People in pubs call it a trash map so thus it becomes instilled in newbies' heads that it's a trash map from the first day they play.
That and people get so used to spawning with carbines and autocockers that they fall apart without a high range gun... Kinda sad really.
When i started playing paintball I was only at school and at that time they had blocked out the online servers and stuff. So for the first 3 months of playing i had no online servers, just friends to play with locally. We never knew about other maps out there but once i took it home and started playing online i realised that teh game was bigger. (Bit long, i know) Knack said what i was going to say but he did it 4 me.
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it would be interesting to see if a faster path were added how the gameplay would go along with it.
It would probably fall apart. From my experience (especially if flagcapensround=1) people will go the fast route, risk getting shot, grab the flag and go. A bit like Shaz33.I was only at school and at that time they had blocked out the online servers and stuff. So for the first 3 months of playing i had no online servers, just friends to play with locally.
What did you think of Midnight (presumably it came with pball2)
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There are too many of these "fast maps"
This map makes you look at a lot of different gameplay angles. Making a fast path for this map would kill it.
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Agreed. Make a top route (like in the origional midnight) and make it fairly easy to get to. Maybe a bit harder than before. And make those massive lights to the side where you can camp. I miss those.
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This map makes you look at a lot of different gameplay angles.
Thinking about it that way its good 4 strategies. One thing I hate about the map is I cant remember where the flag is. So many ladders. Well mabye not but i get SO confused just going around, finding a ladder and it takes you to a completely difference place where you expected to go.
And make those massive lights to the side where you can camp. I miss those.
I miss them too.
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I enjoyed midnight once I figured out the layout. Most people don't appreciate the master of it's design (besides the folks who replied on this thread). Looking forward to the Midnight2, especially after looking at the screen shots.
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Looking forward to the Midnight2, especially after looking at the screen shots.
I already know u know this but midnight2 is already out. This is just a remake that jits is putting together.
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Midnight22?
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Noon?
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Midnight3? Although i do like what Eiii said.
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I already know u know this but midnight2 is already out. This is just a remake that jits is putting together.
Midnight22?
Noon?
Midnight3? Although i do like what Eiii said.
Okay, Just to clarify for those who didnt get that. Midnight 2 is out, but there is a remake possibly coming out. Talk about confusing posts.
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Thanks i_am_a_pirate!
Anyway, Jitspoe, I'm sure that if there's maps where you have matched, those are the midnights. And I understand why you like mignight2 gameplay better....because in midnight the high is much better (you can control the low from high) and no-one goes low. BUT another thing about midnght: It's harder to battle in that high than in midnight2's high (wich is low :S). 90% of the time people will even fall down to the low route when they encounter some enemy!
So, yeah i like midnight more.
So, yeah make a remake of midnight and just forget about midnight2
So, yeah that's all
So, yeah I'm not making much sense am I? I'm sorry just woke up and i'm late for uni =|
Hugs to all the paintballers around the world, remember your parents are almost always right! (more than you anyway..)
:)
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.Okay, Just to clarify for those who didnt get that. Midnight 2 is out, but there is a remake possibly coming out. Talk about confusing posts.
You're like john madden with your posts. Completely unnecessary commentary for the soul purpose of hearing your own voice. Here's some helpful advice: Post count != respect. You should only post when you have something really meaningful (or funny ^_^) to add to the conversation.
</OT>, Continue now :)
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.Okay, Just to clarify for those who didnt get that. Midnight 2 is out, but there is a remake possibly coming out. Talk about confusing posts.
Read earlier posts dude. We know that midnight2 was out, just suggesting different names for the third.
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This is a replacement for midnight2, not a sequel.
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I realize this may sound crazy, but I think if you are going to redo M2, then you should fix the water room with the r_speeds through the roof. I do have an idea how to do this too:
Take the basic: --------------
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| ------- |
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This is the donut wall/hallway thing, I am sure you are familiar. But what if u rotated this on the X (i think) axis to make it like a wall in the middle of two floors. I say make a 1.5 floor that does not completely cover up the water view, but does let u see alot of It, but at the same time makes another landing to run around on and on the sides, can drop down into the "water" room.
Tell me if this is uber confusing, or what, but IT looks great in my head, and most likely would work, so yea. Use the idea if you should want to. :D
-Cusoman
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This is a replacement for midnight2, not a sequel.
A replacement? That will be better.
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This is a replacement for midnight2, not a sequel.
wont it be a bit hard for those who will (inevitebly - not inc me) hate the new version, how will you make sure that the new one gets onto ALL of the servers, unless it has a different name.
On the topic of names, reduce the filename size (or make the in-game server browser wider... or with something to adjust the size...)
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There's already kind of a feature vote for that. Use the standalone server browser or ase instead >.>
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Use the standalone server browser or ase instead >.>
ase?
I already do use the SB. It's a bit hard to quickly change to a server, though, having to close the progrM (re-applying the normal screen settings), and then re-opening pball2 (which it then applies the pball2 settings). Just a tad annoying, all of the loading, not to mention the confusion on xfire for other friend's on-screen alerts.
BACK ON TOPIC!!
Make the elimination zone more interesting and LIGHTER!! I can barely see anything until my gamma and lighten settings are on full blast.
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Make the elimination zone more interesting and LIGHTER!! I can barely see anything until my gamma and lighten settings are on full blast.
Are you referring to what's in the screenshot or how the map is currently?
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How the map is currently. The screeny looks better. :D
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So do what he's already done :|
I'm not that big a fan of Midnight2, probably because I always end up with a sucky gun...!
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Ok, I have founf maybe one bug on map Midnight2, or is it ok? Here is a demo
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i think it`s one but not very usefull...
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I don't think that it is a big enough issue to adress
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I'm merging this into my midnight 2 thread. I'll look at the demo when I get home.
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I don't think that it is a big enough issue to adress
I don´t think too, but It can be fixed very easy and if jitspoe want to remake this map, he can do it better if everyone help him ;)
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Looks like an astray clip brush. But that stands out like hell on bsp.... interesting...
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Just watched the demo. That's actually not a bug. It was put there intentionally so if somebody is spraying to prevent a grab or cap, you can jump over the barrel to avoid it and get a different angle. I probably should have made it a little more obvious. In the new version, I've made the barrels have realistic proportions, so they can be jumped on, so it won't be an issue anymore.
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smaller barrels?....interesting......
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Caught the mapping bug again, so I figured I'd work on this some more.
The high res barrel textures look pretty hot on more realistically scaled barrels.
When I was detailing some of the brushes to make vis faster (only takes 108 seconds now!), some of the light surfaces lost their light values. The result was pretty interesting -- too bad it would be too dark to actually play on (and people would just crank up the brightness settings and make it look like crap anyway).
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maybe add to this map big,underground tunnels with water in this?
{sorry for my english,I'm polish}
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midnight2 needs better guns and barrels . carbine preferred.
and also the more skilled players like where they can move more freely not hit every other barrel in the hallway. dp was made more for tactical play by the way these first maps where created. but it turned into a speed game where people like jumps and fast movement. convert the map into something like propaint1 and Carpathian and it will be more liked.
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convert the map into something like propaint1 and Carpathian and it will be more liked.
sigh. Thats exactly what we need, another PP1 clone.
- Dag
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and also the more skilled players like where they can move more freely not hit every other barrel in the hallway. dp was made more for tactical play by the way these first maps where created. but it turned into a speed game where people like jumps and fast movement. convert the map into something like propaint1 and Carpathian and it will be more liked.
Do this for me.
c:\rd /S c:\games\paintball\* and go play your console games.
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Do this for me.
c:\rd /S c:\games\paintball\* and go play your console games.
Yeah, thats so unbelievable that everybody doesnt like the game like you do.
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Yeah, thats so unbelievable that everybody doesnt like the game like you do.
Who said it was unbelievable? Given the average age and conduct of most of the post-'Speed Server Epoch' players I'd say it was a pretty straightforward conclusion. I almost posted exactly the same thing as Knack but I thought it might get modded. This isn't the place for more discussion on the nature of oldschool vs newschool attitudes, lets just simply acknowledge the fact that Jitspoe's design for Midnight2 is probably going to be built to the spec and values of the oldschool crowd. And that is fine by me.
Having said that, I did find on occasion that navigating the low route on the current Midnight2 could be awkward, it could make hairy chases back through low a little frustrating. Primarily this is to do with some of the channels created by the barrel placements are a bit narrow, in my opinion.
- Dag
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no thanks on the whole midnight2 idea :(
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Some pubbers enjoy the map as to the rest hate it . For some it can be a good map. But not played much in match scene.
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no thanks on the whole midnight2 idea :(
Could you elaborate on why?
JUSTIN: cP used to play it. It plays a lot better in matches than it does pubs.
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i'd have to agree with justin...i havent played anyone whose map was midnight
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if i was with a team that would want to go over midnight... I'd definetly use it in a match
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but...no offences jits...but no one does
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because noone wants to learn anything besdies the pub maps (which is disappoiting). I remember one day when Nub and I went through a boat load of old maps to play. If people took some time to learn the older maps the variety of gameplay would be alot more interesting.
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nononononononononono. When Paintball was floating around our school, the only maps that were played were the ones that came with the game. We used to play midnight and pd2dm1 all the time, until someone went online found out that everyone else hated those maps and played other ones which were called better by the public. So everyone ditched them and went to play other ones that were so called better, remembering that midnight and pb2dm1 were hated by all the online players. Its the message that gets passed on. You see a lot of newbies playing midnight, its just when an experienced player walks into the server and says "excrement map, change please" that they eventually get the picture.
Its only 1 part of why people don't like the map, there are others though.
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midnight was used by old QeHs and rp and maybe even by the latest q. Midnigh2t2 sucks in my opinion.
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Can people start giving constructive criticism of Midnight2?
I think we get the point that a) pub players don't want teamwork or tactics focussed maps b) midnight2 is apparently not trendy and c) there are clans who play it, although they seem to mostly be defunct ones nowadays.
If we can offer some constructive criticism then perhaps this new Midnight 2 will turn public opinion around.
In my opinion, the areas that might need to be addressed are (as pertains to the existing widely distributed midnight2.bsp):
Movement
- The roof in the spawns are too low for a full height jump when you're on the top spawn platform. Makes it feel a bit cramped and doesn't serve a purpose.
- I mentioned previously that I thought some of the through-lines were a bit cramped or awkward because of barrel placements. Specifically, the one at the base entraces from mid-low and the ones near the bottom of the ladder-well near the caps.
- Not too many clean trick jumps (the doubles in the low-bases are kind of flukey and you end up stood on a tiny outcropping behind a barrel)
Items
- I personally don't mind, but I think a lot of what puts people off is the lower spec gun pickups at the spawns. Perhaps providing slightly better markers at the spawn would stop people being so frustrated with the map initially (i'm not suggesting a load of cockers, despite the fact we all know thats what the idiots all want).
- More hoppers are a must, on a reasonably full server it's a complete nightmare racing for the equipment - only to end up with a Spyder, 12oz CO2...and 10 pb's.
Textures
- The strange bands of blue/red concrete lining the edges of levels in the bases is a little incongruous (I wouldn't even bring this up, but I thought I'd put on my Jitspoe The Texture Nazi costume for halloween :P)
- There are loads of opportunity to make use of the CTP or other high-res texture packs, but I think you're well aware of that from earlier posts.
Misc
- God I hate barrels. Make a default forum avatar picture with an Anti-Barrels sign on it like 'anticrates' and I'll be a happy happy man.
That about covers it!
- Dag
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I disagree with most of you, if you want to make midnight2 a competitive map I think it is pretty darn close. The only thing I would change is making it less bottlenecky. It is way too easy for carcoal-reaver-esque players to sit in the window and spray the opposing teams high path. If there was some form of a jump (perhaps at both the points where high and low enter the middle) it would make the gameplay much more interesting.
I feel that the equipment is fine and causes interesting situations; not spawning with the best equipment as is standard in most new maps is refreshing.
If you want to make it a map pub players like make everyone spawn with the best equipment so newbies can sit in the window, spray bottlenecks and get kills. This usually constitutes the type of pub map newbies like.
+1
/me is speechless
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Agreed. I qualified my comment about the items with 'I don't personally mind' because I like the fact that the equipment levels have actually been considered, I was just playing devils advocate. Having said that, it's one thing to encourage interesting gameplay by contouring the equipment levels of starting players, but it's another when the players you're trying to coerce are so ignorant and lazy that they would rather quit or find a new server than play without cockers and automags.
I'd thought about a jump in the mid before but I concluded that the space is rather too small to get away with a clean jump (not involving ladders or jump-pads, etc...), and lengthening the mid would make the low and high bridges even more treacherous. Perhaps if you could contrive some cover for the mid? (no barrels, please!)
Dag
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Thanks DT and Dag. That's the kind of feedback I was looking for. Saying "Midnight 2 sucks" doesn't help any.
The barrels are completely different now, since I'm trying to use realistic proportions. I was thinking of adding a wall/shield/bunker type thing at the tunnel exits so players in the base can't just spray them. I may also add an additional tunnel exit (possibly DSM). I was thinking of having a DSM tunnel that went all the way into the base on the other side, but I want to be careful not to make the map too confusing (seems people are confused a lot by it already).
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You could have a hidden button that when pressed opens a door allowing dead players to start running into the center of the map.
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well, when someone finds this button it wont be the hidden button then.. Maybe if there was some jump(s) to this button
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I cant say i really liked midnight or midnight 2 because i never knew why the maps were made like that..now tha i read this forum i understand how the map works and i like how its looks...the realistic portions make the map a lot nicer
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or it could be right out in the open directly in front of the door. Imagine how funny it would be seeing some random player get curious and push the little candy apple red button just to get swamped by 10 players with pgps.
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the reason why people get confused by it is that if you spawn on the middle platform (not the high one) inyour base, then there is really not much way of telling which way to go for the high and which way to go for low. Maybe make some signs. I see countless newbies running around trying to find an exit to the base without getting distracted by 'ooh! a ladder, I'll go up it' and then 'oh, this is where I spawned again' only to be greeted by a guy with an autococker. They then die and then disconnect.
Another thing: PLEASE get rid of the autocockers at the high. Its ridiculous when 2 n00bs get them and spray the entrance to the high when you only have a trracer
</rant>
EDIT
before you flame me for reviving this topic: I havn't been on the forums fora while and I really want to see this get implemented so I thought I'd contribute my thoughts!
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*goes back a page
*smacks head
anywho, that jump could be as simple as giving a bit more room by raising the ceiling at the end of the tunnel for a DJ, or you could make a tunnel where you have to do a simple DJ to get to a slightly higher path.