Digital Paint Discussion Board
Paintball 2: The Game => Paintball 2 Discussion => Topic started by: Blitz on October 23, 2005, 01:17:13 AM
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I've tried not to be too involved in these situations, but the time has come to be blunt.
Jitspoe, what the $@& are you doing?
Has the community's opinion ever even crossed your mind when you make some of these changes to the game?
1. The change of ballflight x years ago -- this completely altered the game; yet when was there ever even discussion amidst the community? All of a sudden, grand lord of DP jitspoe decided that it would be for the better of the community to increase the ballflight speed to enhance realism. Now, do not misunderstand me -- I am not arguing that this was a change for the worst. The problem was the way you went about enforcing it. You thurst it onto the community, with little if any discussion. Look at the drama it created; needless drama.
2. Tripping -- good call, once again just thrown into the mix without word. That diddn't take, eh.
3. Realistic Ball Flight -- Again, something that changes the game significantly -- thrust upon the community by one super-god, for better or worse.
4. Gun Jamming -- Hey, look.. how strange; yet another addition to the game that COMPLETELY changes the way it has been played. I'm glad the whole community was able to collaborate and agree that it was a good idea.
5. Impact Grenades -- ..hmm, there seems to be a pattern here. Do you just not *care* about what everyone thinks? Do you just believe every one of your ideas is for the best? Is that why you don't even bother to ask?
Please, explain.. because i fail to understand.
I don't really feel like discussing my opinion on the impact grenades; I've already stated it a long time ago. I don't like them, but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. That's hardly the focus of this rant.
Oh, and how about these (un/barely)documented new "client" side grenade options. Yeah, that might change things just a bit, thanks for giving us the heads-up.
Here's yet another thing that bothers me, I see all these ideas and posts about statistics systems, web-based leagues, etc. Do something. What have you done for this game, other than giving it a $*@##$ up, buggy face-lift and a few bananas to throw around. Not much, from my point of view. Certainly you've created a healthy dose of drama for us all to take in.
Another point, since I'm in a bashing mood -- you don't even play in the clan scene anyone. You're not a part. Don't try to empathize, it's just funny to hear you try to relate to anything concerning it.
Here's all I'm asking -- at least have the courtesy to ask the people that actually play this game how they feel about impending, game-altering changes. I think you might be suprised to find that everyone doesn't agree with you.
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Summary:
Jitspoe I'm mad at you for not asking for user input. I believe that you should ask for user input or have polls about your new ideas rather then just implementing them
I agree, but not in as harsh of words.
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BSoD you are in no position to respond to anything right now. And if I were you, I wouldn't be bashing jitspoe right now. Maybe you'll figure out why later.
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BSoD you are in no position to respond to anything right now. And if I were you, I wouldn't be bashing jitspoe right now. Maybe you'll figure out why later.
How did I bash him and why am I not in a position to respond to anything? I simply summarized the above paragraph and stated that I agree tha Jitspoe should take more user input. I don't believe a guest is in any position to tell me what I can and cannot respond to.
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If there's one thing jits shouldn't do, it's make more user input. 8/10ths of the players will only play maps like blitz and pbcup. They don't need control of the game.
EDIT: also, on the gun jamming thing, that was to cut down on spraying. So, all the people playing pbcup were sad and started complaining.
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Jitspoe, what the $@& are you doing?
The thing is, it's jitspoe's game and there are thing that I'd like to see added that probaly never will be because jits doesn't think they'd be good for gameplay, but it's his game. Now if it were you're game you're game, you could decide whether or not the community get a say in it. But it's not you're game, it's jit's game and he'll continue to do whatever the hell he likes with it!
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I love how I try to get feedback on all this stuff by posting forum threads and asking for input, then I get little to no feedback, and once it's implemented, certain groups of people throw a big hissy fit. The ball flight was, and still is, configurable server-side. If it's that big of a deal to you, purchase your own server and change the settings to your liking. I'm not even the one who implemented tripping or realistic ball flight. I like how you all want to turn this into a "blame jitspoe" game. Gun jamming is also server configurable. Buy your own server and shut it off if you don't like it. Impact grenades were discussed a while back and after I got input from the community we decided that they should be user-selected in order to allow for various strategies where one grenade is favorable over the other.
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The poll you took from 15 people that stated "This might not affect my decision.. but..."
A step in the right direction, I'll give it that.
If you keep everything server side, it's much easier on the community. I completely agree that anything server side is subject to the implementation of the server owner. Making them _default_ is merely an annoyance. However, the recent trend has been toward client-side functions.
"then I get little to no feedback, and once it's implemented" << Why are you implementing things with little or no feedback? I don't think a simple forum post/poll is the best you can do. Why not organize IRC debates concerning the issues for at least a more dynamic discussion on these impending changes? Doesn't seem very unrealistic to me.
"The thing is, it's jitspoe's game" << You're right, all of a sudden -- it is jitspoes. Nevermind the original development team that created the backbone of the game.
Calrathan? Isn't that some kind of bird..?
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I've tried not to be too involved in these situations, but the time has come to be blunt.
Jitspoe, what the $@& are you doing?
Has the community's opinion ever even crossed your mind when you make some of these changes to the game?
1. The change of ballflight x years ago -- this completely altered the game; yet when was there ever even discussion amidst the community? All of a sudden, grand lord of DP jitspoe decided that it would be for the better of the community to increase the ballflight speed to enhance realism. Now, do not misunderstand me -- I am not arguing that this was a change for the worst. The problem was the way you went about enforcing it. You thurst it onto the community, with little if any discussion. Look at the drama it created; needless drama.
2. Tripping -- good call, once again just thrown into the mix without word. That diddn't take, eh.
3. Realistic Ball Flight -- Again, something that changes the game significantly -- thrust upon the community by one super-god, for better or worse.
4. Gun Jamming -- Hey, look.. how strange; yet another addition to the game that COMPLETELY changes the way it has been played. I'm glad the whole community was able to collaborate and agree that it was a good idea.
5. Impact Grenades -- ..hmm, there seems to be a pattern here. Do you just not *care* about what everyone thinks? Do you just believe every one of your ideas is for the best? Is that why you don't even bother to ask?
Please, explain.. because i fail to understand.
I don't really feel like discussing my opinion on the impact grenades; I've already stated it a long time ago. I don't like them, but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. That's hardly the focus of this rant.
Oh, and how about these (un/barely)documented new "client" side grenade options. Yeah, that might change things just a bit, thanks for giving us the heads-up.
Here's yet another thing that bothers me, I see all these ideas and posts about statistics systems, web-based leagues, etc. Do something. What have you done for this game, other than giving it a $*@##$ up, buggy face-lift and a few bananas to throw around. Not much, from my point of view. Certainly you've created a healthy dose of drama for us all to take in.
Another point, since I'm in a bashing mood -- you don't even play in the clan scene anyone. You're not a part. Don't try to empathize, it's just funny to hear you try to relate to anything concerning it.
Here's all I'm asking -- at least have the courtesy to ask the people that actually play this game how they feel about impending, game-altering changes. I think you might be suprised to find that everyone doesn't agree with you.
AGREED x45.
/endthread
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Uhhh... no. The thread is still open.
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Uhhh... no. The thread is still open.
LMFAO.. clearly.
Good observation.
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Another thing, there are several community members who, instead of providing useful feedback, would rather insult me and whine. The same type of people who go on the servers and make it their sole purpose to annoy other players. Do you really think I want to please these people?
"However, the recent trend has been toward client-side functions." Trend of 1? Like I said, I got feedback about this before implementing client side controlled grenades.
"Why are you implementing things with little or no feedback?" Why make the game at all? Even if I did have a huge discussion about the implementation of something, it's all speculation. How can you provide feedback on something that doesn't exist yet?
In retrospect, what I should have done, is dumped the old quake2 mod completely and made an entirely new game. I've learned an important lesson: "Do it right the first time, because if you change it, they will whine." Hell, people even whine about the better graphics. It's ridiculous.
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Ok, you know what? I feel the need to go into rant mode here.
I've been trying to open this up and make it more community driven. I've been starting discussions for basically all of the various ideas I've had. I've started up a .plan thread detailing the things I'm working on. I've started up a wiki so that the community can help document the game. I've organized weekly pickups. I've helped people work on their maps and started the weekly map testing (after the pickups fizzled out) where I'm actively participating twice a week to run the tests, and I spend hours writing up detailed critiques and helping people fix issues with their maps. I'm spending $100 of my own hard earned money every month so that I can run a server, and I'm uploading new test builds every few days so people can try them out and provide feedback. I switched clans because I wasn't getting enough match time with cP. I spend at least 2 hours every day doing DP-related stuff of some sort, and that's pretty much all of my free time.
And now all of a sudden, I get slammed harder than ever before. You come in and have the audacity to say that I can do better? No, you can do better. Come to the tests. Give feedback. Help out with graphics or something. Next time any of you come whining and crying about how I supposedly ruined the game, ask yourself, "What have I contributed?" If it's nothing, sit down and shut up.
What do I get for all the hard work I've put into this? Nothing. But that's ok, because I enjoy the game. However, what's the point in me working on a game I don't enjoy? Do I not even have the right to make changes so that it's more enjoyable for myself?
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Another thing, there are several community members who, instead of providing useful feedback, would rather insult me and whine. The same type of people who go on the servers and make it their sole purpose to annoy other players. Do you really think I want to please these people?
"However, the recent trend has been toward client-side functions." Trend of 1? Like I said, I got feedback about this before implementing client side controlled grenades.
"Why are you implementing things with little or no feedback?" Why make the game at all? Even if I did have a huge discussion about the implementation of something, it's all speculation. How can you provide feedback on something that doesn't exist yet?
In retrospect, what I should have done, is dumped the old quake2 mod completely and made an entirely new game. I've learned an important lesson: "Do it right the first time, because if you change it, they will whine." Hell, people even whine about the better graphics. It's ridiculous.
who's to say what's 'better'?
you may THINK you're making it 'better', while other people think you're making it worse.. and, people only talk excrement to you after changes have been made. no one ever knows the changes are going to be made.. they kinda just happen. every change that has ever been made it just pops up at me. I find myself matching with new settings almost every single match. One match you can cap, one you cant.. it's retarded. and, you can't possibly know what will be better in a match because you DONT match. the excrement where you have to send flag back before you can cap.. you may think it's better because in a pub newbies run around and the rounds never end.. yes, okay, thats better.. BUT, in a match, it's more like sit and hide in a corner with the flag for 20 minutes straight trying to avoid the other team. It pretty much ruined c1 as a map. people just run up the ladder and hide until the time runs down. I know, because we sat upper for 17 MINUTES straight. also, there was no recon on that server (another one of your dumb new changes) and they couldnt find us the WHOLE 17 minutes because they lacked recon. Good? Definately not
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Ok, you know what? I feel the need to go into rant mode here.
I've been trying to open this up and make it more community driven. I've been starting discussions for basically all of the various ideas I've had. I've started up a .plan thread detailing the things I'm working on. I've started up a wiki so that the community can help document the game. I've organized weekly pickups. I've helped people work on their maps and started the weekly map testing (after the pickups fizzled out) where I'm actively participating twice a week to run the tests, and I spend hours writing up detailed critiques and helping people fix issues with their maps. I'm spending $100 of my own hard earned money every month so that I can run a server, and I'm uploading new test builds every few days so people can try them out and provide feedback. I switched clans because I wasn't getting enough match time with cP. I spend at least 2 hours every day doing DP-related stuff of some sort, and that's pretty much all of my free time.
And now all of a sudden, I get slammed harder than ever before. You come in and have the audacity to say that I can do better? No, you can do better. Come to the tests. Give feedback. Help out with graphics or something. Next time any of you come whining and crying about how I supposedly ruined the game, ask yourself, "What have I contributed?" If it's nothing, sit down and shut up.
What do I get for all the hard work I've put into this? Nothing. But that's ok, because I enjoy the game. However, what's the point in me working on a game I don't enjoy? Do I not even have the right to make changes so that it's more enjoyable for myself?
yup, you do have the right.. just like we have the right to complain. it's like if the NFL suddenly turned football into a game where you do cartwheels over bridges with banana shoes and elephant hats.. dont you think veteran players will be upset? That's exactly what's happening here.
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Exaggerate much?
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Exaggerate much?
not really..
recon is one of the biggest parts of the game.. you took it out.
ball lobbing was one of the aspects of the game that made it hard, because you had to know how the balls lobs if you wanna hit people that arent right in your face.. you took that out.
you added impact grens.. NO ONE uses timed grens anymore. We just matched, and I found that people are more focus'd on throwing grens then shooting. I'd walk up to someone and before they even thought of tooking a shot at me they'd throw an impact down at the ground.
You made it so you can't cap without flags being back... took away all the turn arounds that made matches intense. now it's basically just 1pt rounds.
etc.
Match gameplay is MUCH worse now.
take that from someone who has been matching in the top clans for years, not from newbies who think "OMFGZXz i have 52 frags lOLZ yay imPACt."
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taking*
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As for the graphics/look .. other then the models being difficult to see, I think you did a very good job.
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They're not hard to see...
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You've taken this responsibility upon yourself, no one held a gun to your head and made you take on this project of re-vamping DP. I don't doubt that you're putting in more effort towards the community than anyone else -- but what's your point? After all, this is "your game" ...it seems like you should have more responsibility than Joe Black over there on the public server.
Your replys seem very defensive, and I would like to get one thing clear -- I am not trying to just slander you and your effort into the game. I am very glad that you have stepped up and taken this project into your hands. There are, without a doubt, more players now in the public scene than there would be if there was no stand-alone development. This is great; the more people in this community, the more time we all have to enjoy a great game.
I applaud the fact that you're running servers, and that you're taking tme out to help people with map-making problems. This is all great...
The only thing I don't like, and I know I am not alone here, is how you have chosen to implement play-altering functionality into the game. This conversation reminds me of one years ago, when everything was in turmoil with the (then) newly implemented ball flight.
I remember a comment you made, in particular -- "people hate change.."
So true, people do. Maybe what eiii said is right, the mass of this community just isn't ready to seriously discuss changes in an efficient way. But, at the same time -- I feel that the extreme opposite (in this case, one person) is also not the way to go. Perhaps I'm wrong, and I'm certainly willing to accept my opinion as so.
To summarize my thoughts, I am much less irritated when I do not have to voice my opinion after the fact. You made a statement about how it's not sensibile to discuss something that hasn't been implemented.This is what I don't understand. Really, I think we both have valid points -- but you win, this is "your game." Just know that everyone doesn't agree.
You have NOT ruined the game. You've made significant changes. My objection comes not on the changes themselves, but the way in which they have been introduced.
Again, people do not like change (even if for the best). So gradually introduce us to them. Otherwise, expect harsh criticizm.
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I agree with Blitz (about how you said it's not sensible to discuss changes that haven't been made) -- This is true in some cases, yes.. but impact grenades? no recon? shooting straight instead of lob? All of these things, you can easily take a guess as to what it would be like. We know what recon is like, so no recon would be the opposite.. etc. Rarely would you actually have to make the change first for it to be discussed.
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They're not hard to see...
What's the point of a comment like that? Okay, so you think they're not hard to see. digi disagrees.
And? No need for us to talk about things that are purely subjective. He's not the only one that finds the quake models easier to view, and clearly not everyone disagrees with you.
There's a difference between expressing your opinion on something that is absolute and already defined (ie, jitspoe HAS released client side toggleable grenades), and when you disagree with someone's opinon (ie, digi THINKS that the models are hard to see).
Let's try to keep on topic with these kinds of posts, otherwise we end up in a useless flame war where a whole lot of nothing gets said.. and we all lose a few IQ points ;)
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Okay. WHY do you think they're easier to see?
And yes, the crouching is awesome.
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I also find paintballs VERY hard to see in the alpha. especially on darker maps, I find I can barely see them at all.
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Jitspoe, I think you are doing a fine job.
In an attempt to not leave the game stagnent you continually develope. That rocks. There may be a few things I don't entirely agree with (maintaining backwards compatability, for one), but the truth is, you're meddling this chick, we're all just holding the wings.
Keep on keeping on. Somethings will work out, some won't.
The plans that you have for this game are going to be great.
LOD on the new character is porobably a pretty high priority I bet.
Get Rob on it. Have ya talk to him about it?
BTW: I use the build15 that Jitspoe gave me at DPCON, in high res mode, and I love it. Does it make me lag more? WHO GIVES A intercourse it looks great!!! Make the playing experience a little better for me.
Maybe we need a Renaissance...maybe we'll have one soon!
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Why complain now? Not when 15, 14, 13 was released?
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Lol, what you so long to complain, again.??
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jitspoe, when you don't listen what else do people have to do to get your attention? everyone who runs a server just happens to leave the pathetic default settings on thinking its the way it should be. i believe most people don't like having to come here when they are already on irc, you don't do very much to accomodate anyone at all. thats a real popular route to take as you've seen. so yes, you deserve all of the negativity you've seen on here and on irc for years. you've seen a lot of people complain about the settings YOU took apon YOURSELF to add as default. being forced to play the game the way you like it is a waste of everyones time. if you ran a company like that, it'd be out of business, cause i know you're not making a fortune selling "dp shirts". why is it that when you see someone bad mouthing you, you don't really do anything to change, just stay quite or run away....i didn't know that was the correct way with dealing with problems, gotta try it sometime.
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I'm just asking, are you referring to the non-classic Graf servers? Because those aren't the default settings.
Jits, I for one think you're doing a great job listening to and evaluating community feedback. I can't say I agree with all the changes, but it's your game.
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I think all you mother intercoursers need to just back the intercourse on off of Jitspoe.
He listens.
He is also in a position to where he doesn't want to piss off the old community, but also wants to draw in the new player. And like all companies looking to expand thier market that involves change. It just so happens that this change can not be reliably achieved listening to community feedback.
It's a risk process. Jitspoe has ideas. Some of these ideas may not affect the current community, but some may. Jitspoe's ideas (of which i've heard about a few future ideas and am very excited) are designed to get this game up closer with today's game technology. He must do this if he is to draw in any new players. Gaming has advanced too far for this game to get much new player notice otherwise. Some of these ideas will succeed, some won't. Some will have virtually no affect to the current community, but may just be that little spark of today's technology that makes a new player take a chance and give it a try.
You see Jitspoe, as I see it, is in a unique position. He is the president of DP. This allows him to play game software god and see if he can take this old tired game, revamp it, and make it rise from the ashes. If he succeeds he has a great addition to his resume, a great sense of accomplishment, and a happy community that he created. If he fails he still has a great addition to his resume (because failure in the wake of great effort is still a highly praised commodity). This is valuable experience for Jitspoe, who I know longs to be working in gaming instead of cameras.
I don't take Jitspoe for an idiot. And not listening to all of you would make him just that. So don't think that he doesn't listen, because I can assure you he does.
If you want to be a louder voice this is not the way to do it. Getting involved in testing, reviewing, and developing IS the way. I helped with the new character model. In doing so I feel I had a good deal of input on the final product. I also learned Jitspoe is a hard-headed ass to work with j/k ;) .
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You see Jitspoe, as I see it, is in a unique position. He is the president of DP
nobody ever voted him in. he's failing, someone please impeach him/her. btw do you really call begging people to come to dp con a real success in expansion for a good game made crappy by one kid? he doesn't even code on his own, he gets a lot of help doing it. i wish cyberdog had stayed and helped make dp, but the two little idiots calrathan and jitspoe took a different path, that path was a good one for a while, till cal just completely gave up on making dp happen. jitspoe has flat out ruined the game. why don't you realize that tons of people use to play it, now only a handfull do. doesn't anyone wonder why we've gone from over a dozen clans to only 3 or 4 that don't even match? yeah, s8n, stick up for your little friend jitspoe because he needs someone to defend him, because he will not defend himself. just blame everyone for his poor choices and refusal to listen to anything.
real life paintball, if my gun froze, i'd take it back to my house and make a work around so it doesn't. if i tripped in the field i'd make sure to practice running. if the balls didn't fly out of the barrle in a straight line, i'd rework the gun so it would. how the hell do you see his changes as improvements? HE HAS RUINED THE GAME. jesus, just because he wants everyone to be able to play the game without having to learn it doesn't mean the rest of us who have already learned get punished with these crap settings.
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I feel the dramatic drop in player base over the years has more to do with people growing out of it, getting busy with life, and new games of interest, than of features pushing people away. Some people stick with thing for a long time, others enjoy and move on.
It would be nice to poll all the long lost old-schoolers and see exactly why they quit playing.
Some, like those that still visit this board, or hang in IRC, but never play may have issue with features and whatnot, but I think most have gone to college, graduated college, gotten married, gotten a real life, had kids, are trying to survive life, or have some other interest that has moved them away from the game.
Hell i've even left DP for long periods of time because of real life interests and matters.
I think online gaming, in general, has just become different from what it used to be back in the beginning of it all. The children of the first era of online gamers are probably beginning to play.
And...
I'm not sure how it's setup exactly, but any one of you programmers can grab the OPEN SOURCE and start your own version of this game any time you like. If you think Jitspoe is sucking that bad this is the way to throw him out. I've even thought about taking this game off on some wild tangent myself. I just don't have the time to even bother downloading the source. I'd get a divorce instantly if I did that.
So, YES, I am defending Jitspoe 100%. No one else is stepping up to the developement plate.
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Wow. Did Jitspoe run over someone's puppy or smth? I'll most likely regret posting in this thread, but wtf, by the looks of this mutiny, I'll stick with the captain. (sry, lame analogy, but Im watching Trek. And yes, I'm a geek.)
Anyway, first off.. Jitspoe? Good job. Fvck that, excellent job. Over the past eight years that I've been playing this game (off and on), I haven't seen anyone else (development team or otherwise) put in nearly as much time and effort into keeping the game fresh and (yes, I'll say it) suited to the community. Not all of the changes have been favorable to everyone, but in an effort to please the majority of the people (most of whom offer little feedback) Jits has exceeded my expectations.
Jits doesnt get paid for this game. He can do what he wants, and while Im sure he's entertained the idea of giant banana player models that shoot kittens , I doubt he'd do it. He makes a game for fun, and designs to what he thinks would work best. From the looks of it, he doesn't get much help and takes an load of crap from the community. Sometimes you see new maps, models, webpages and the like from a few good sould, but far too often you see forum bashing, idiots in irc, etc. It's a wonder Jit hasn't left us all to pursue more real life activities and games design that pays.
Secondly, well, there is no second. My adhd is kicking in, and I lost the other thoughts I had. Let's just say it disgusts me to see ppl saying Jitspoe "ruined this game" and less saying "thanks".
So, Thanks, Jitspoe. Awesome game, good guy.
/rant
//one of the "wing holders"
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he doesn't even code on his own, he gets a lot of help doing it.
Help? From who? Who's helping me? I'd like to know, because whoever it is isn't very helpful. Ok, so Calrathan swings by every once in a while and contributes sometimes, but that's pretty rare these days.
i wish cyberdog had stayed and helped make dp
Haha, do you have a severe case of selective memory or something? This is but a drop in the ocean compared to the community uproar that happened with him. If you want his work, go download mortalfunk's q2pb or whatever it was called. Remember how popular that was? Hmm.
if i tripped in the field i'd make sure to practice running
Again, as I pointed out earlier if you had been paying attention, I did not implement the tripping code. Also, I suppose this is also due to lack of observation, it's never used on any servers any more, ever. You're just grasping at straws here trying to come up with excuses to insult me.
You call me happy and say I ruined the game, and when I ask how, you ignore me. Then you come here whining about how I don't listen? Then you don't listen yourself and start making crap up to bash me?
Lastly, why should I try to please you? You do nothing but hurl insults at me and other people. To be honest, I hope my changes drive you away from the community completely. What have you ever done to contribute?
Go download the old Q2 mod before I "ruined" it and set up your own servers and clans.
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How about a nice little forum called User Feedback where jitspoe could post new ideas for community feedback and the community could post for ideas of their own?
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you mean a section called "Bugs, Feature Requests, and Feedback"?
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you mean where people getting flamed down by the vets? oh thats real fun. :(
Perhaps A topic where only Jitspoe can give feedback. Its his game you might support it by playing and mapping. Thats it. Money does not grow on trees, niether does his time. Who are you all to piss on everything you dont agree with. Get a life is a subjective term, acting kind to other people's opinions is not. If you aint got nothing nice to say, or cant say it politely....then be quiet :)
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Anyway, sorry for the flame. I'm not one for disliking people, but if you perpetually hurl insults at me, sooner or later I'm going to quit liking you.
On a serious note, digi drew a parallel to changes in sports. Now, I'm no sports historian, but I'm fairly certain that there were quite a number of evolutions and changes to the game we Americans now know as football. There had to have been. The thing has rules up the wazoo. They didn't just spontaneously come into existence overnight. Times change. People change. Strategies change. New things get introduced that the old rules didn't account for.
Now, take the ball flight in paintball2. How many of you seriously think the old ball flight would work well in the game now? Things have changed. Nearly everyone is playing on highspeed internet access, and people strafe jump at velocities that would exceed highway speed limits. Players can now move faster than the old balls used to fly. The old balls moved so slow that we even had to reduce the gravity. These days, people could practically run circles around them. We had to do it that way back then because of velocity restrictions we didn't know how to work around. Later I fixed that and set the ball velocities to be that of real paintballs. Some public testing revealed that this opened up a whole new range of strategies. Instead of having to lob balls over everything and aim at the sky the whole time, you could actually shoot through and under various obstructions, and hit targets where you were aiming! I and others thought this was a good thing. I'm sorry for trying to improve the game. Please forgive me.
Now, if you truly believe the old ball flight was better. That's fine. Go set yourself up a server with it.
Oh, and how would you suggest I go about introducing new features in the future, Blitz?
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Now, I'm no sports historian, but I'm fairly certain that there were quite a number of evolutions and changes to the game we Americans now know as football.
As a Pats fan, I'd like to point to the "Tuck Rule." =)
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Anyway, sorry for the flame. I'm not one for disliking people, but if you perpetually hurl insults at me, sooner or later I'm going to quit liking you.
On a serious note, digi drew a parallel to changes in sports. Now, I'm no sports historian, but I'm fairly certain that there were quite a number of evolutions and changes to the game we Americans now know as football. There had to have been. The thing has rules up the wazoo. They didn't just spontaneously come into existence overnight. Times change. People change. Strategies change. New things get introduced that the old rules didn't account for.
Now, take the ball flight in paintball2. How many of you seriously think the old ball flight would work well in the game now? Things have changed. Nearly everyone is playing on highspeed internet access, and people strafe jump at velocities that would exceed highway speed limits. Players can now move faster than the old balls used to fly. The old balls moved so slow that we even had to reduce the gravity. These days, people could practically run circles around them. We had to do it that way back then because of velocity restrictions we didn't know how to work around. Later I fixed that and set the ball velocities to be that of real paintballs. Some public testing revealed that this opened up a whole new range of strategies. Instead of having to lob balls over everything and aim at the sky the whole time, you could actually shoot through and under various obstructions, and hit targets where you were aiming! I and others thought this was a good thing. I'm sorry for trying to improve the game. Please forgive me.
Now, if you truly believe the old ball flight was better. That's fine. Go set yourself up a server with it.
Oh, and how would you suggest I go about introducing new features in the future, Blitz?
Blitz really hit on the point with his first post about this 2 years ago feb 2003? Loial cries "I cant see my balls damit!!!!"
More important I also belive in the adapt and overcome mythos. Logic clearly dictates change is must, otherwise lets all play blitz all the time always on a q2 engine...... (chaos is must in combat) What is so hard about adpating a strategy and or ethos that supports bad spelling and chaos? Nothing can always go as planned dear sirs, war clearly is not logical nor lawful, mostly. Mostly.
NO BLUE LINE IN HOCKEY IS GHEY>
EDIT i like blutz and blitz.bsp :) hugs
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my take is jit is doing a good job sure some things i dont agree with but the point is that its really his game and he can do what he wants if you dont like it how about you just done play. its not like you are paying for the game. maybe if everyone sent jit $30 for the right to play a game he might listen.
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Oh, and how would you suggest I go about introducing new features in the future, Blitz?
Simply allowing those of us in the community (who care) some time to discuss impending changes before you implement them. I know you're fairly active with this kind of info on the forums as of late, but I think a more dynamic structure would really be usefull.
A random idea, you host a #pball_update discussion or something on ETG a few days prior to releasing a significant change to the game. You make it well known via the website/whatnot that you're going to do this.. and then have a 45 minute chat session where you explain your reasoning/take questions/etc. Now, if people don't come to something like this and afterwards complain, I will definately defend your position.
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Simply allowing those of us in the community (who care) some time to discuss impending changes before you implement them.
Who are us?
A random idea, you host a #pball_update discussion or something on ETG a few days prior to releasing a significant change to the game
Why not on forum? Feels a sudden shift towards...be quiet loial u dont know [poop]
we want to vent in private. well ok even if you did not,
I have not only in the last year made the lamest suggestions and called unknown to persons who do not know how cheat, cheaters, or am, I wrong?
I have said I am sorry. Why cant any one else appriciate this game and play it, without being personal? Sad...
4thx i miss ya
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From what I remember of the old time servers... I think Knack had servers up... heck I don't remember who else. Everyone overflowed a couple times a game, only a few people could double the kill/death ratio. I'm sure no one wants the game to return to those days. Improvements or non-improvements have happened over several years, even with my very little participation I've seen Jitspoe asking for opinions. Usually they get very little response, this may be due to simpy not enough people seeing the posts or maybe it's just that most people don't care.
I've seen several people volunteer to help with the develoment of the game, but unless they can bring skills to the table I'm sure it would only slow down the process instead of actually helping. I'm one of those people, I'd like to help, but I don't know how to help.
I really don't think the problem is that Jitspoe doesn't listen, it's just that he may not agree for whatever reason, or he thinks changing something in the game will make it better. I don't know him very well but he seems open and willing for discussion to me.
I also don't know about the early history of the game, but I understand this was a group effort and I'm curious how it became a one man show? Is Jitspoe the last man standing? Did everyone else move on?
Anyway, overall the game rox, this is the only game I've played for so long so there must be something right about it.
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I can pay with time and money and still I play without my say. So be it.
I have forever been named a stupid arse that knows not a thing about combat. But still I have fun.) Why cant you?
FLamebotson - loial's new name. (Flame-bots-on)
Dear Hobo,
You have come along ways and so have I. .....lets dance.........lets daNCE!!!........
Camperlove.
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Haha, you're funny loial... :)
Anyone can camp... but it takes a Hobo to properly cook the beans...
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Anyway, sorry for the flame. I'm not one for disliking people, but if you perpetually hurl insults at me, sooner or later I'm going to quit liking you.
On a serious note, digi drew a parallel to changes in sports. Now, I'm no sports historian, but I'm fairly certain that there were quite a number of evolutions and changes to the game we Americans now know as football. There had to have been. The thing has rules up the wazoo. They didn't just spontaneously come into existence overnight. Times change. People change. Strategies change. New things get introduced that the old rules didn't account for.
Now, take the ball flight in paintball2. How many of you seriously think the old ball flight would work well in the game now? Things have changed. Nearly everyone is playing on highspeed internet access, and people strafe jump at velocities that would exceed highway speed limits. Players can now move faster than the old balls used to fly. The old balls moved so slow that we even had to reduce the gravity. These days, people could practically run circles around them. We had to do it that way back then because of velocity restrictions we didn't know how to work around. Later I fixed that and set the ball velocities to be that of real paintballs. Some public testing revealed that this opened up a whole new range of strategies. Instead of having to lob balls over everything and aim at the sky the whole time, you could actually shoot through and under various obstructions, and hit targets where you were aiming! I and others thought this was a good thing. I'm sorry for trying to improve the game. Please forgive me.
Now, if you truly believe the old ball flight was better. That's fine. Go set yourself up a server with it.
Oh, and how would you suggest I go about introducing new features in the future, Blitz?
??.. for the 6 or so years I've played.. I've always moved the same. How do you figure we're suddenly moving faster?
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Simply allowing those of us in the community (who care) some time to discuss impending changes before you implement them.
Who are us?
A random idea, you host a #pball_update discussion or something on ETG a few days prior to releasing a significant change to the game
Why not on forum? Feels a sudden shift towards...be quiet loial u dont know [poop]
we want to vent in private. well ok even if you did not,
I have not only in the last year made the lamest suggestions and called unknown to persons who do not know how cheat, cheaters, or am, I wrong?
I have said I am sorry. Why cant any one else appriciate this game and play it, without being personal? Sad...
4thx i miss ya
many more people on irc then on here. only people I see post that I know on irc are dt and Blitz. the rest are some random people I've never heard of. IRC would be much more effective. I didnt even use/know of the forums until a few days ago.
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From what I remember of the old time servers... I think Knack had servers up... heck I don't remember who else. Everyone overflowed a couple times a game, only a few people could double the kill/death ratio. I'm sure no one wants the game to return to those days. Improvements or non-improvements have happened over several years, even with my very little participation I've seen Jitspoe asking for opinions. Usually they get very little response, this may be due to simpy not enough people seeing the posts or maybe it's just that most people don't care.
I've seen several people volunteer to help with the develoment of the game, but unless they can bring skills to the table I'm sure it would only slow down the process instead of actually helping. I'm one of those people, I'd like to help, but I don't know how to help.
I really don't think the problem is that Jitspoe doesn't listen, it's just that he may not agree for whatever reason, or he thinks changing something in the game will make it better. I don't know him very well but he seems open and willing for discussion to me.
I also don't know about the early history of the game, but I understand this was a group effort and I'm curious how it became a one man show? Is Jitspoe the last man standing? Did everyone else move on?
Anyway, overall the game rox, this is the only game I've played for so long so there must be something right about it.
I just read the first line of that.. so you're saying, since the game was more difficult back then it made it worse? lmfao.. good call! That's basically how I look at the changes.. he made everything easier for people who sucked. Took away the challenge.
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by Blitz: many more people on irc then on here. only people I see post that I know on irc are dt and Blitz. the rest are some random people I've never heard of. IRC would be much more effective. I didnt even use/know of the forums until a few days ago.
I'm on irc all the time annoying the masses.
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Digi,
Are you upset because you can no longer trounce everyone in the game, on every map, on any day? I know who you are, and you have also reminded me what you are, maybe if you'd learn who some of us are you wouldn't be so angry. One advantage of the forums is that you don't have to be there 24/7 to particapate, whereas IRC is more interactive and everyone just talks over the top of everyone else. In the forum you can review what someone has to say, even read the whole post if you want. I also seem to remember you posting on this forum several times, even before a few days ago, even a few years ago for that matter. I suppose someone else could have been using your name but I doubt it.
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Digi,
Are you upset because you can no longer trounce everyone in the game, on every map, on any day? I know who you are
No. I'm upset because it's now EASIER to do so, smartass.
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lmao, believe me, digi still trounces everyone in the game. Blitz does too, if we lose its usually my fault, xbains fault, or fyres fault. Typically we just blame the loss on fyre whether he's there or not.
LOL
good old fyre
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lmao, believe me, digi still trounces everyone in the game. Blitz does too, if we lose its usually my fault, xbains fault, or fyres fault. Typically we just blame the loss on fyre whether he's there or not.
lol
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??.. for the 6 or so years I've played.. I've always moved the same. How do you figure we're suddenly moving faster?
Strafe jumping was not nearly as prevalent back then. Few knew how to do it, and those that did were not nearly as proficient as people are today. The quake2 physics were new to everyone, and trick jumps that are trivial to do now were very difficult back then. I seem to recall it taking quite a while before the castle1 1-man backdoor was even discovered.
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i discovered that
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no no..Me, Shreds, Gibb, the rest of Rust were in Castle1 playing and doing different jumps. Shred and a few others were working on jumping off the barrel next to the back door start point up to the opening above the doorway into the base and me and a few were working on the backdoor. I successfully made the jump first. I can only do the jump every 10th try now-a-days. I'm not a very good jumper.
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Wow idk your in Rust. Thats slightly before my time. What happened to yall?
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Gibb went to college and lost interest. Shreds is actually still around now and then. He was doing that band thing last I heard. He's a drummer, and a darn good one too! Lobby (WarLobster), I don't know about. Anrkist was a big admin on SuperNova for a while. Him and I guy I work with were aquaintances through SuperNova so I kept in touch a little. Goldbond, I don't know.
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I hear Goldbond owns a chicken farm in the Texas panhandle.
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Hi Jitspoe!
I have a problem.
I have pressed 7 (i think it was 7) and then my paintball screen get smaller. All around the screen is brown and i do not know how to change it back! Please help me!
Write back soon
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Everyone is jealous of my post count.
Everyone.
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isnt it funny how every larger thread in this forum turns to being a spam thread in the end.. ?
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Ok, you know what? I feel the need to go into rant mode here.
I've been trying to open this up and make it more community driven. I've been starting discussions for basically all of the various ideas I've had. I've started up a .plan thread detailing the things I'm working on. I've started up a wiki so that the community can help document the game. I've organized weekly pickups. I've helped people work on their maps and started the weekly map testing (after the pickups fizzled out) where I'm actively participating twice a week to run the tests, and I spend hours writing up detailed critiques and helping people fix issues with their maps. I'm spending $100 of my own hard earned money every month so that I can run a server, and I'm uploading new test builds every few days so people can try them out and provide feedback. I switched clans because I wasn't getting enough match time with cP. I spend at least 2 hours every day doing DP-related stuff of some sort, and that's pretty much all of my free time.
And now all of a sudden, I get slammed harder than ever before. You come in and have the audacity to say that I can do better? No, you can do better. Come to the tests. Give feedback. Help out with graphics or something. Next time any of you come whining and crying about how I supposedly ruined the game, ask yourself, "What have I contributed?" If it's nothing, sit down and shut up.
What do I get for all the hard work I've put into this? Nothing. But that's ok, because I enjoy the game. However, what's the point in me working on a game I don't enjoy? Do I not even have the right to make changes so that it's more enjoyable for myself?
WHATCHU TALKIN BOUT NATHAN!
BLITZ CONTRIBUTED..... a whole 35 feet by 65 feet square with invisible walls and the words " *ip* blitz on the walls!!! WHAT ELSE DO YOU WANT!!!
/end sarcasim.
jitspoe for president 2006.
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blitz for best map ever vs ice by dj
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I really hope you're kidding.
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Why should I be kidding. Because i have payed hard earned money to pay for a server that I have no access to regarding maps? Or because I have spent countless hours with all factions of this game and mods but above all I have managed polite, humble conversations with all others, that despite there age, class, or creed I manage to be nice to? Off and On line. Why does this mod have the hardest problem with being nice? Its beyond me and my logic.
With that said how many maps have I asked for to be added, that were not, there were on e3rrt servers back then when I started wtf were the complaints then?
Nice community....Where if your opinion is not shared by the majority old irc users ur shunned. intercoursiNG LAME.
FLAME WARS do not help. EIO ur last post is not helping.
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Another thing I would like to add: The game is still in development. "Alpha" means "not done yet." It's public so I can get feedback on various ideas and whatnot. Just because I change something doesn't mean it will remain that way forever. A lot of this stuff is experimental. I try to get feedback on as much as I can, but it's difficult. Discussions on servers don't work well, for obvious reasons. There are only a handful of people active on IRC at any given time. Even with all the activity going on on the forums these days, I can only get about 10-15 votes on a poll.
A lot of times, people's opinions change before and after testing ideas, or perhaps I misinterpret what they're trying to say.
Two different kinds of grenades would be an interesting addition, as both serve different purposes..
And then we have many different groups of people who all have different ideas on how they think the game should go:
- The anti-change people, who think the game should have stayed exactly like it was in QWPB.
- The skill-oriented people, who think the game should be all about individual skill and not about teamwork or strategy.
- The teamwork/strategy people, who think the game should reward teamwork over raw individual skill.
- The no-think players, who say any map where they can't sit in one spot and have every enemy player pass in front of their nose so they can shoot at them sucks.
- The sim players, who want the game to accurately represent realistic paintball play.
- The fast-paced action players, who want lots of trick jumps and vast areas of bunny-hop friendly terrain.
- The non-players, who don't really play anymore, but still have plenty to say about why they don't play, and what they think would make the game more enjoyable so they would play.
To put it simply, there is no way possible to please all of these people. There have been many times when I've thought it might be better to have various branches of the game that are geared more toward a specific group, but that's a different subject alltogether.
What I really need is for more people to explain why they do don't like specific settings and features. All too often, I get people whining and crying about X, but they never explain why. So I try Y, but then the people who like X complain about Y, and people who like Y don't want to go back to X, so I offer a compromise idea, and nobody agrees because too many want strictly X or Y.
I think I'm rambling, but all I'm trying to say is that if you don't like the way something is, or you don't like something I've changed, provide a convincing argument as to why it doesn't work well.
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Well, the way the client side gren selection came about was certainly not the way I intended. More on this when I get a moment.
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Ok, you know what? I feel the need to go into rant mode here.
I've been trying to open this up and make it more community driven. I've been starting discussions for basically all of the various ideas I've had. I've started up a .plan thread detailing the things I'm working on. I've started up a wiki so that the community can help document the game. I've organized weekly pickups. I've helped people work on their maps and started the weekly map testing (after the pickups fizzled out) where I'm actively participating twice a week to run the tests, and I spend hours writing up detailed critiques and helping people fix issues with their maps. I'm spending $100 of my own hard earned money every month so that I can run a server, and I'm uploading new test builds every few days so people can try them out and provide feedback. I switched clans because I wasn't getting enough match time with cP. I spend at least 2 hours every day doing DP-related stuff of some sort, and that's pretty much all of my free time.
And now all of a sudden, I get slammed harder than ever before. You come in and have the audacity to say that I can do better? No, you can do better. Come to the tests. Give feedback. Help out with graphics or something. Next time any of you come whining and crying about how I supposedly ruined the game, ask yourself, "What have I contributed?" If it's nothing, sit down and shut up.
What do I get for all the hard work I've put into this? Nothing. But that's ok, because I enjoy the game. However, what's the point in me working on a game I don't enjoy? Do I not even have the right to make changes so that it's more enjoyable for myself?
WHATCHU TALKIN BOUT NATHAN!
BLITZ CONTRIBUTED..... a whole 35 feet by 65 feet square with invisible walls and the words " *ip* blitz on the walls!!! WHAT ELSE DO YOU WANT!!!
/end sarcasim.
jitspoe for president 2006.
FFIRE ON 4 PREZIDENT LolZ.
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