Digital Paint Discussion Board

Development => Bugs, Feature Requests, and Feedback => Topic started by: Fred187 on September 18, 2005, 09:52:34 AM

Title: Request: Realistic Visuals
Post by: Fred187 on September 18, 2005, 09:52:34 AM
Everyone else will probably be completely against this, but I'd like to see some more realistic visuals. Rather than having those big blocky floating guns, why not put in some scale guns with physics (they will fall/slide according to where they land).

Also, when a player dies, instead of falling over and disappearing it'd be cool if they'd throw down their gun and walk, head hanging, back to base and then wait till they can respawn. Then, if someone shot them (it'd happen) they could face that direction and shake their fist.

Finally, does jitspoe plan to show each player model carrying whatever gun they've picked up with hopper/barrel as a pose to always carrying the carbine. This could not only look better, but show who has what gun.
Title: Re: Request: Realistic Visuals
Post by: jitspoe on September 18, 2005, 03:16:35 PM
I had a poll about this once and it seems people prefer the large, rotating guns.  As for the death animations, I think having people walk off the field might be really distracting (especially at a distance where you can't tell if you hit them or not).
Title: Re: Request: Realistic Visuals
Post by: Eiii on September 18, 2005, 03:36:38 PM
It's just more fun to have them die, anyway. And I agree, jits should MAKE IT SO WE CAN SEE WHAT GUN PEOPLE HAVE!!
Title: Re: Request: Realistic Visuals
Post by: Fred187 on September 19, 2005, 11:35:12 AM
I guess it would be quite distracting. Hows abouts if their body stayed on the ground, then when it was respawn time they could stand up and start playin again, as for the guns on the ground it could be ajustable so you could have scale/ on floor or blocky. Also there could be an animation for picking things up, just a quick bend over and reach down.
Title: Re: Request: Realistic Visuals
Post by: jitspoe on September 19, 2005, 02:54:01 PM
Bodies on the ground is also distracting. :)  It used to be that players would stay dead on the ground until they clicked, but I forced them to disappear after a second or so because it always drove me nuts when people would just stay there.  At a distance, all you see is a blob of color, and it screws with your intstictive reactions.  Also, if people respawned where they died, people could use cheap tactics and shoot at the dead players right when they're about to respawn so they die again immediately.  Or maybe they'd respawn right at the enemy flag (if they got killed just before grabbing).  That wouldn't be good, either.
Title: Re: Request: Realistic Visuals
Post by: XtremeBain on September 19, 2005, 03:29:02 PM
How about freeze-pball!
I love it.
Title: Re: Request: Realistic Visuals
Post by: Fred187 on September 20, 2005, 02:44:57 PM
How about freeze-pball!
I love it.

Yeah, what he said.
Title: Re: Request: Realistic Visuals
Post by: Fred187 on September 20, 2005, 02:49:02 PM
Drifting slightly off-topic here. Jitspoe, did you ever consider adding vehicles for some maps, it would kick ass to be able to drive along in a mini with a couple of teamates shooting out the back. Would have to only be on a few of maps though, with a small number of vehicles.
Title: Re: Request: Realistic Visuals
Post by: Eiii on September 20, 2005, 04:33:56 PM
heh. We need bigger map limits for that. BTW jits, what's keeping you from changing those?
Title: Re: Request: Realistic Visuals
Post by: jitspoe on September 20, 2005, 05:02:09 PM
The map sizes are limited by the network data.  Increasing the bounds would mean using about twice as much bandwidth.  I don't really see a reason to do it, either.  If I did, DirtyTaco would make maps so big, it would take the entire 20 minute timelimit just to get to the other base. ;)

As for vehicles, well, that'd be a bunch of work.  I've already got a huge pile of stuff on my todo list.  Maybe when all of that's done, I'll consider it.
Title: Re: Request: Realistic Visuals
Post by: Eiii on September 20, 2005, 05:24:28 PM
That would be crazy. Vehicles...
Title: _
Post by: IronFist on September 20, 2005, 07:27:33 PM
Post removed
Title: Re: Request: Realistic Visuals
Post by: Eiii on September 20, 2005, 08:04:49 PM
Nah. I think it would be better with jits's touch.
Title: Re: Request: Realistic Visuals
Post by: jitspoe on September 20, 2005, 08:25:11 PM
HL2 physics are slow and glitchy.  Though I don't know if I could do something better than what a company entirely dedicated to creating physics libraries for games has done.  Besides, forcing people to use steam is something I'd never subject this community to. ;)
Title: _
Post by: IronFist on September 21, 2005, 07:29:13 AM
Post removed
Title: Re: Request: Realistic Visuals
Post by: Eiii on September 21, 2005, 08:08:47 AM
Yeah. I got turned off.

And jits, you need to make more things clientside. Like entity stuff. Ball flight.
Title: Re: Request: Realistic Visuals
Post by: jitspoe on September 21, 2005, 03:05:30 PM
Quote
They only suck in online mode
What, are you suggesting I make an offline-only pb mod? :P
Title: Re: Request: Realistic Visuals
Post by: Eiii on September 21, 2005, 05:33:17 PM
Yeah, but have it connect to other computers so that there can be other people.
Title: Re: Request: Realistic Visuals
Post by: b00nlander on September 22, 2005, 02:04:13 PM
offline... but with multiple computers connected... right...
Title: Re: Request: Realistic Visuals
Post by: Eiii on September 22, 2005, 04:34:26 PM
Thats the best way!
Title: Re: Request: Realistic Visuals
Post by: Fred187 on September 23, 2005, 10:46:19 AM
I've thought of a new visual effect that could be quite good, weather effects i.e. rain, snow, fog, etc. I'm not sure whether or not this is already possible but I've certainly never seen it.
Title: Re: Request: Realistic Visuals
Post by: jitspoe on September 23, 2005, 11:40:41 AM
We started on something like that but never finished it.
Title: Re: Request: Realistic Visuals
Post by: Eiii on September 23, 2005, 05:38:47 PM
Well, once you have other priorities done, finish it!
Title: Re: Request: Realistic Visuals
Post by: CainAssassin on September 23, 2005, 09:46:23 PM
weather sounds like a great idea. Think of all the possibilities with lense fogging or something along those lines to make it more realistic..
Title: Re: Request: Realistic Visuals
Post by: jitspoe on September 24, 2005, 03:13:29 PM
Fog is already supported.  Though it messes up with underwater caustics -- need to figure out how to work around that.
Title: Re: Request: Realistic Visuals
Post by: Eiii on September 24, 2005, 04:29:56 PM
Fog is just messed up in general. Thing to improve in fog:
Make lights 'blurred' and more visible from a distance. (ala Halo 2) (SSHOTS! These don't show it so well, but...
http://bungie.net/images/Games/Halo2/screenshots/h2_mp_backwash1.jpg
)

Make an entity that keeps fog from existing there. (so you can only have fog outdoors)
Title: Re: Request: Realistic Visuals
Post by: Fred187 on September 25, 2005, 01:56:57 AM
Back to the "what happens after you die" topic, what if there was a guy with a bag for each team who went around pickinng up all the bodies and taking them back to base. This idea seemed less crazy in my head. Also does jitspoe ever intend to implement ragdoll physics? If so then this guy seems to have the right kinda tools: http://www.walaber.com/  (http://www.walaber.com/)
Title: Re: Request: Realistic Visuals
Post by: Eiii on September 25, 2005, 07:41:21 AM
Not gonna happen. The ragdoll physics, on the other hand...
http://jet.ro/dismount/ <-- better...
Title: Re: Request: Realistic Visuals
Post by: CainAssassin on September 25, 2005, 07:55:11 AM
would it be possible to make ragdoll physics to miscellaneous barrels that aren't stacked together in a particular way?
Title: Re: Request: Realistic Visuals
Post by: LaFAWNda on September 25, 2005, 08:01:21 AM
It may not be realistic, but still, it could be cool I guess... :-\
Title: Re: Request: Realistic Visuals
Post by: CainAssassin on September 25, 2005, 08:05:24 AM
 :-[ yeah, I guess you're right, and I rest my case.
Title: Re: Request: Realistic Visuals
Post by: Fred187 on September 25, 2005, 08:40:47 AM
Roughly how possible would ragdoll physics be?
Title: Re: Request: Realistic Visuals
Post by: Eiii on September 25, 2005, 08:49:20 AM
I don't think it would be very possible, because of the model format, but I"m not jits.
Title: Re: Request: Realistic Visuals
Post by: Fred187 on September 25, 2005, 10:50:26 AM
*cough*cough...giveusyoureopinionjits...*cough*cough
Title: Re: Request: Realistic Visuals
Post by: jitspoe on September 25, 2005, 01:29:11 PM
The problem with physics isn't the model format (anymore), it's implementing the physics engine itself.  All of the free physics engines I've tinkered with are incredibly slow and buggy.  I don't know about you, but I don't want my framerate to drop down to 10fps when some physical interactions occur, not to mention stuff falling out of the level.  Even professional physics libraries like Havok have their issues.  I might have to write my own physics engine if I want to do this.

The other problem is networking.  I'd either have to update the position of each body part from the server (waste lots of bandwidth), or do it all on the client (each client would probably see something different happen).

In short: it would cause a lot more CPU and/or bandwidth usage and may take a few years of development time.
Title: Re: Request: Realistic Visuals
Post by: Eiii on September 25, 2005, 04:44:36 PM
*Idea
Have it client-based, like you said, but have all the clients do the physics at a fixed rate (servercvar?). Then, every 10 seconds or so, update the REAL position of the vehicle. And the physics engine doesn't have to be great and complicated. Heck, the physics engine in halo 1 was just shperes and springs.
Title: Re: Request: Realistic Visuals
Post by: CainAssassin on September 25, 2005, 04:52:40 PM
well how long would that take? it sounds like a good idea
Title: Re: Request: Realistic Visuals
Post by: Eiii on September 25, 2005, 05:09:17 PM
All my ideas are good. Jits just has to learn that. And, way to use tags.
Title: Re: Request: Realistic Visuals
Post by: jitspoe on September 26, 2005, 05:10:26 PM
Clients can't do physics at a fixed rate because framerate can vary too much.  60Hz is about the minimum you would need for decent physical interactions, but there are many players who still get less than 60fps, and physics calculations will decrease that number even more.  The "real" position of things like vehicles would need to be updated on a regular basis.  10 seconds is like 3 rounds of pbcup. ;)  It doesn't have to be great and complicated?  So you don't mind if things get stuck all the time and/or fall out of the level? :)

Anyway, I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm saying that it's going to take a lot of time to implement and will bump up the system/bandwidth requirements.
Title: Re: Request: Realistic Visuals
Post by: CainAssassin on September 27, 2005, 09:05:56 PM
srry bout that eiii  :-[ lol
Title: Re: Request: Realistic Visuals
Post by: Grimmie on October 04, 2005, 07:10:37 PM
"Also, when a player dies, instead of falling over and disappearing it'd be cool if they'd throw down their gun and walk, head hanging, back to base and then wait till they can respawn. Then, if someone shot them (it'd happen) they could face that direction and shake their fist."

I think it would be a good idea that way ppl could look at the game in a more realistic way as a game not shoot to kill.
Title: Re: Request: Realistic Visuals
Post by: Eiii on October 04, 2005, 07:54:38 PM
No, it would be too hard to tell who's alive and who's not. Also, it'd be hard to code, and just not look right.
Title: Re: Request: Realistic Visuals
Post by: Grimmie on October 05, 2005, 07:59:23 AM
 ::)Oh well I tried in real paint ball you raise your hands and walk off the field. ???
Title: Re: Request: Realistic Visuals
Post by: Eiii on October 05, 2005, 08:18:00 AM
That would be painful.
Title: Re: Request: Realistic Visuals
Post by: CainAssassin on October 05, 2005, 05:26:38 PM
yeah that would be pretty cool if the character could just raise his gun to show hes been shot. or...too much coding?
Title: Re: Request: Realistic Visuals
Post by: Eiii on October 05, 2005, 06:04:37 PM
No, it would be too hard to tell who's alive and who's not. Also, it'd be hard to code, and just not look right.